Trade Monroe for Kevin love.

durtymrclean · Jul 7, 2013

That's a trade that actually makes sense for this team. Love, Drummond, smith would be a dynamic front court since love is probably a top 5 three point shooter regardless of position. What do you think?

tomdalton22 · Jul 7, 2013

durtymrclean said:
That's a trade that actually makes sense for this team. Love, Drummond, smith would be a dynamic front court since love is probably a top 5 three point shooter regardless of position. What do you think?

Why would MN trade him?

durtymrclean · Jul 7, 2013

tomdalton22 said:
Why would MN trade him?

Love been pretty open about how the twolves don't compete soon, he wants out. Also general minnesota incompetence.

everyoneneedsasmil · Jul 8, 2013

durtymrclean said:
Love been pretty open about how the twolves don't compete soon, he wants out. Also general minnesota incompetence.

If such a trade was available, obviously we should take it. That said, I can't see Minny doing it. They'll hold onto Love until his last year then see what they can get. It's not ideal, but Monroe isn't likely a great fit with Minny. Neither Pek nor Rubio can shoot, and Minny has spent money trying to improve their outside shooting. Love for Monroe is the opposite direction in that regard, and Minny keeps thinking they can compete if they just keep everyone healthy.

jrange378 · Jul 8, 2013

Obviously Detroit would seriously consider it, but I don't think MINN would.

mhughes0021 · Jul 8, 2013

durtymrclean said:
Love been pretty open about how the twolves don't compete soon, he wants out. Also general minnesota incompetence.

Newsflash...Detroit is not going to compete anytime soon either.

jrange378 · Jul 8, 2013

mhughes0021 said:
Newsflash...Detroit is not going to compete anytime soon either.

For the title? Not likely. For the playoffs? We're a contender THIS year imo. Doesn't take much to make the playoffs. Smith, Drummond starting all year, and KCP being decent should put us into 1st round out territory.

Plus we have 8 mill cap room still. Don't know what we're doing with that.

mhughes0021 · Jul 9, 2013

jrange378 said:
For the title? Not likely. For the playoffs? We're a contender THIS year imo. Doesn't take much to make the playoffs. Smith, Drummond starting all year, and KCP being decent should put us into 1st round out territory.

Plus we have 8 mill cap room still. Don't know what we're doing with that.

wrong year to be a one n done playoff contender....JoeD just put the nail in the coffin for this franchise (again lol). We need to hope for a couple season ending injuries.

Mitchrapp · Jul 9, 2013

mhughes0021 said:
wrong year to be a one n done playoff contender....JoeD just put the nail in the coffin for this franchise (again lol). We need to hope for a couple season ending injuries.

That's the way. Maybe a year long suspension or a murder charge. Who wants the stinkin' playoffs.

tomdalton22 · Jul 9, 2013

mhughes0021 said:
wrong year to be a one n done playoff contender....JoeD just put the nail in the coffin for this franchise (again lol). We need to hope for a couple season ending injuries.

The Pistons owe the Bobcats a 1st round pick that is lottery protected next year, #1 protected 2015 and unprotected 2016. If the Pistons make the playoffs they lose their pick next year. If they miss it they get to keep it and get in the lottery for what has been said to be one of the best drafts in years. I hope they miss the playoffs next year and 2015 is the year for them to start turning this thing around.

everyoneneedsasmil · Jul 9, 2013

tomdalton22 said:
The Pistons owe the Bobcats a 1st round pick that is lottery protected next year, #1 protected 2015 and unprotected 2016. If the Pistons make the playoffs they lose their pick next year. If they miss it they get to keep it and get in the lottery for what has been said to be one of the best drafts in years. I hope they miss the playoffs next year and 2015 is the year for them to start turning this thing around.

Actually, the pick is only top 8 protected next year, it was lottery protected this year. So the Pistons can't simply miss the playoffs, they would have to be one of the worst 8 teams in the league again. Given the addition of Smith, that seems unlikely, but not exactly impossible. We currently have zero PGs on the roster (Bynum, Knight, and Stuckey are all scoring guards with limited passing skills), and our lineups are severely lacking in shooters. While our defense is assuredly going to improve, our offense could legitimately be near the bottom of the league.

Still, there are a number of teams that appear to be actively tanking from the start of the season, and the Pistons refuse to tank even in the most obvious of situations. Given all that, I don't see how the team finishes as low as it did this year, and thus the pick is going to be lost even if we don't make the playoffs.

tomdalton22 · Jul 9, 2013

everyoneneedsasmil said:
Actually, the pick is only top 8 protected next year, it was lottery protected this year. So the Pistons can't simply miss the playoffs, they would have to be one of the worst 8 teams in the league again. Given the addition of Smith, that seems unlikely, but not exactly impossible. We currently have zero PGs on the roster (Bynum, Knight, and Stuckey are all scoring guards with limited passing skills), and our lineups are severely lacking in shooters. While our defense is assuredly going to improve, our offense could legitimately be near the bottom of the league.

Still, there are a number of teams that appear to be actively tanking from the start of the season, and the Pistons refuse to tank even in the most obvious of situations. Given all that, I don't see how the team finishes as low as it did this year, and thus the pick is going to be lost even if we don't make the playoffs.

Unless they miss the playoffs and their ping pong ball gets selected for the top 3

everyoneneedsasmil · Jul 9, 2013

tomdalton22 said:
Unless they miss the playoffs and their ping pong ball gets selected for the top 3

Right, which would be a huge longshot considering we would likely be in the 10-14 range.

tomdalton22 · Jul 9, 2013

everyoneneedsasmil said:
Right, which would be a huge longshot considering we would likely be in the 10-14 range.

this is true. I think this team "as is" should be around .500

everyoneneedsasmil · Jul 9, 2013

tomdalton22 said:
this is true. I think this team "as is" should be around .500

I'm not sure I agree. I'm very suspicious of our offense. Last year we were 22nd in offense, and 23rd in defense. I expect the defense should be 10-15, if only because we'll control the defensive glass and finally have an elite defender on the wing. The offense I'm not sure gets any better. Smith is actually an inefficient scorer, and it's likely he'll have the green light to take a lot of bad shots. Further, Brandon Knight was the third worst starter in the league last year according to win-shares. He's shown no real aptitude at the PG spot, but we have no shooting and will need him to start there.

But, let's say our offense doesn't get any worse. A 10-15 ranked defense and 20th ranked offense just isn't that good. To put it in perspective, 5 teams outside the top 15 in offense made the playoffs (4 from the East). 4 of those 5 (the only ones with over .500 records) were in the top 6 defensively. The team that we are most likely to resemble next year is the Milwaukee Bucks. Milwaukee was not a .500 team because despite acceptable defense (12th), they couldn't score enough (tied with us offensively last year).

If the Pistons expect to be a .500 team or better, they will need to have an elite defense, which is not something Cheeks or our players track record would suggest. We could still make the playoffs, but it will be more on the weakness of the East than strength of our team overall.

tomdalton22 · Jul 9, 2013

everyoneneedsasmil said:
I'm not sure I agree. I'm very suspicious of our offense. Last year we were 22nd in offense, and 23rd in defense. I expect the defense should be 10-15, if only because we'll control the defensive glass and finally have an elite defender on the wing. The offense I'm not sure gets any better. Smith is actually an inefficient scorer, and it's likely he'll have the green light to take a lot of bad shots. Further, Brandon Knight was the third worst starter in the league last year according to win-shares. He's shown no real aptitude at the PG spot, but we have no shooting and will need him to start there.

But, let's say our offense doesn't get any worse. A 10-15 ranked defense and 20th ranked offense just isn't that good. To put it in perspective, 5 teams outside the top 15 in offense made the playoffs (4 from the East). 4 of those 5 (the only ones with over .500 records) were in the top 6 defensively. The team that we are most likely to resemble next year is the Milwaukee Bucks. Milwaukee was not a .500 team because despite acceptable defense (12th), they couldn't score enough (tied with us offensively last year).

If the Pistons expect to be a .500 team or better, they will need to have an elite defense, which is not something Cheeks or our players track record would suggest. We could still make the playoffs, but it will be more on the weakness of the East than strength of our team overall.

I think you are underestimating what kind of player Josh Smith is. He is instantly the second best player on the team...maybe equal to Monroe. He is an elite defender and rebounder. While he is not a prolific scorer he is a HUGE upgrade offensively over any of the small forwards on the roster. This will also eliminate most of the minutes of Maxiell. Believe it or not he averaged about 25 minutes a game and he actually started 71 games which is a joke. The wild card is Love. Singler averaged 28 minutes a game and only averaged 9 points. I think Love can be better than that and he is a good defender and good rebounder.

mhughes0021 · Jul 9, 2013

Mitchrapp said:
That's the way. Maybe a year long suspension or a murder charge. Who wants the stinkin' playoffs.

not me....take a look at the list of draft prospects comming out next year.

everyoneneedsasmil · Jul 9, 2013

tomdalton22 said:
I think you are underestimating what kind of player Josh Smith is. He is instantly the second best player on the team...maybe equal to Monroe. He is an elite defender and rebounder. While he is not a prolific scorer he is a HUGE upgrade offensively over any of the small forwards on the roster. This will also eliminate most of the minutes of Maxiell. Believe it or not he averaged about 25 minutes a game and he actually started 71 games which is a joke. The wild card is Love. Singler averaged 28 minutes a game and only averaged 9 points. I think Love can be better than that and he is a good defender and good rebounder.

I think you are overestimating Josh Smith's offense. Is he individually better than Singler? Yes, by a mile. But the team offense isn't as simply as that. Smith is very inefficient as a scorer (Kyle Singler actually had a superior TS%) because he can't shoot. In Atlanta that could be mitigated because Teague, Williams, and Horford all had solid-strong shooting skills outside the paint. In Detroit, he'll be playing alongside Monroe and Drummond a lot, players with zero shooting ability. Three non-shooters (and that's not even counting that Stuckey can't shoot and KCP hasn't hit much in summer league) on the court at once makes it VERY difficult to space the floor and get good looks.

Just look at teams like Memphis and Indiana. Both have superior offensive talent than the Pistons, but both scored only marginally better last year. Teams that can't shoot or pass struggle to score. Given we have a notable dearth of shooters (the ever-inconsistent Brandon Knight is the ONLY player currently on our team that shot about league average on jumpers), and we have no PG, it's highly likely we will struggle to score.

Teambuilding is not as simple as throwing talented players together. If it was, Sacramento wouldn't be such a wreck. The fact is, players have to actually fit together unless their talent is off the charts (like Lebron, young Wade, Durant, young Kobe). Josh Smith (nor Monroe or Drummond) is not at that level, and there is significant evidence to suggest he is not a good fit for the team. Atlanta only managed to be 15th in offense last year with Smith, despite Horford being better than Monroe and Teague being better than every guard we have.

Mitchrapp · Jul 9, 2013

mhughes0021 said:
not me....take a look at the list of draft prospects comming out next year.

From the sounds of it, they need to suck really bad, get lucky with a ping pong ball or they'll lose it anyway.

tomdalton22 · Jul 9, 2013

everyoneneedsasmil said:
I think you are overestimating Josh Smith's offense. Is he individually better than Singler? Yes, by a mile. But the team offense isn't as simply as that. Smith is very inefficient as a scorer (Kyle Singler actually had a superior TS%) because he can't shoot. In Atlanta that could be mitigated because Teague, Williams, and Horford all had solid-strong shooting skills outside the paint. In Detroit, he'll be playing alongside Monroe and Drummond a lot, players with zero shooting ability. Three non-shooters (and that's not even counting that Stuckey can't shoot and KCP hasn't hit much in summer league) on the court at once makes it VERY difficult to space the floor and get good looks.

Just look at teams like Memphis and Indiana. Both have superior offensive talent than the Pistons, but both scored only marginally better last year. Teams that can't shoot or pass struggle to score. Given we have a notable dearth of shooters (the ever-inconsistent Brandon Knight is the ONLY player currently on our team that shot about league average on jumpers), and we have no PG, it's highly likely we will struggle to score.

Teambuilding is not as simple as throwing talented players together. If it was, Sacramento wouldn't be such a wreck. The fact is, players have to actually fit together unless their talent is off the charts (like Lebron, young Wade, Durant, young Kobe). Josh Smith (nor Monroe or Drummond) is not at that level, and there is significant evidence to suggest he is not a good fit for the team. Atlanta only managed to be 15th in offense last year with Smith, despite Horford being better than Monroe and Teague being better than every guard we have.

while I agree that team building is not as simple as throwing talented players together I do know that throwing talented players together + good coaching is better than no talent with poor coaching. Last year the Pistons had the latter. I think Cheeks is a good coach and now they have more talent. It is up to him to figure out how to make it work. My guess is they will be a very defensive minded team. They just added some Itialian dude that was a great shooter in Europe. Maybe they get a PG or another shooter for CV's expiring contract. Even if they don't I think they will be better this year.

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