Florida's "stand your ground" law

Michchamp · Mar 20, 2012

I remember when this was debated and passed, using the usual "we need to be afraid of everyone and everything around us!!!!" hysteria to justify the fact that no right-minded English-speaking country ever allowed the unilateral use of deadly force in public as a defense to murder in history... http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/20/florida-shooting-focuses-attention-on-stand-your-ground-law/

it's pretty outrageous, and I guess no surprise that the level of "justifiable" homicides have increased in Florida. But some of these incidents, like the Trayvon Martin shooting, underscore why this is such an awful idea...

you now have an assortment of losers, wannabe cops, outright racists, and other vigilantes picking fights with unarmed opponents, then using this law to justify killing someone.

and in some of these instances, there's no one around to witness what happened, so basically it's carte blanche to murder someone and get away with it, since district attorneys aren't going to throw the book at someone when they have no evidence to overcome the barrier imposed by this stupid law.

Michchamp · Mar 20, 2012

from the link: <blockquote>In the years since the law was amended in 2005, there has been a surge in the number of cases like Mr. Dooley

grandy · Mar 20, 2012

The whole story makes me sick and the 911 calls make it even worse.

Hopefully they lock up this asshole for a very long time, since he basically executed this poor kid.

Thumb · Mar 20, 2012

Well the one guy in Florida who shot the guy on the playground should not have had a gun with him at that time. Period.

CCW or no, you should not be in that area with a loaded gun, if nothing else the man (Trevor Dooley) is guilty of not having any common sense.

Diggler Cometh · Mar 22, 2012

This happened 20 minutes from my house. A day later two 14 year old white girls were purposely ran over in a neigboring town from me by black teenagers. One of them was killed.. Where is her rally? Oh... That would be racist. I'm sick of these double standards. What happens when a hard working white man is killed by a black crack head trying to rob him for his wallet? Nothing. If a white man does it, all hell breaks loose.

Just to verify, I'm not supporting the man who killed that boy. Obviously. Just the double standards in America.

jimrice · Mar 22, 2012

Diggler Cometh said:
This happened 20 minutes from my house. A day later two 14 year old white girls were purposely ran over in a neigboring town from me by black teenagers. One of them was killed.. Where is her rally? Oh... That would be racist. I'm sick of these double standards. What happens when a hard working white man is killed by a black crack head trying to rob him for his wallet? Nothing. If a white man does it, all hell breaks loose.

Just to verify, I'm not supporting the man who killed that boy. Obviously. Just the double standards in America.

How do you think a rally starts? If you want a rally, get involved and help organize a rally.

I don't see the point in complaining about people because they take the bull by the horns and get involved. The Tea Party doesn't have anything to do this summer, they're all available. If you can't get support, that may tell you things about your point of view that you aren't ready to hear.

Diggler Cometh · Mar 22, 2012

If they couldn't get the support it's because white people are afraid of persecution through the media. The results are the same in each case. White people would just be tagged as being ignorant racists. The average white man doesn't have a voice nowadays.

Jessica · Mar 22, 2012

Every time I think about Trayvon Martin and how he was killed, I just want to cry. Damn.

Slick · Mar 22, 2012

ya...I agree white people don't get a fair shake in America , ever since you elected a black muslim from Kenya it's all been downhill.

grandy · Mar 22, 2012

The race that makes up the majority of voters has the smallest voice...what?

Slick · Mar 22, 2012

if that kid was white and the shooter was black , he would have been tried and convicted by now.

Monster · Mar 23, 2012

jesndave said:
Every time I think about Trayvon Martin and how he was killed, I just want to cry. Damn.

I guarantee this is what happened...

Zimmerman mentioned that there had been a series of break-ins in the neighborhood, he saw Trayvon and got suspicious of a black kid walking in the rain at night. After he called 911 he started to follow him to find out what he was up to. Meanwhile, Trayvon is on the phone with his girl and starts getting scared (as kids do) that a full grown man is coming after him. After Zimmerman finally tracks him down, Trayvon is so scared that he pushes and maybe even throws a punch at zimmerman. They wrestle for a few seconds, long enough for the kid to yell for help, but doesn't stop fighting back. Zimmerman, being the pussy that he looks like, decides that Trayvon is hostile and wants to hurt him so he pulls his gun and shoots him. Then he realizes that Trayvon was just a kid and had no weapon so he claims that he was the one screaming for help. :nuts:

Michchamp · Mar 23, 2012

Diggler Cometh said:
This happened 20 minutes from my house. A day later two 14 year old white girls were purposely ran over in a neigboring town from me by black teenagers. One of them was killed.. Where is her rally? Oh... That would be racist. I'm sick of these double standards. What happens when a hard working white man is killed by a black crack head trying to rob him for his wallet? Nothing. If a white man does it, all hell breaks loose.

Just to verify, I'm not supporting the man who killed that boy. Obviously. Just the double standards in America.

Um, you might have a point, if the guy who ran over the two girls was not charged with a crime, and the police didn't even bother investigating it...

Slick · Mar 23, 2012

throw up a link...I cant find anything on black teens running over 2 white girls.

redandguilty · Mar 23, 2012

Geraldo says it's the hoodie's fault.

Michchamp · Mar 23, 2012

Monster said:
I guarantee this is what happened...

Zimmerman mentioned that there had been a series of break-ins in the neighborhood, he saw Trayvon and got suspicious of a black kid walking in the rain at night. After he called 911 he started to follow him to find out what he was up to. Meanwhile, Trayvon is on the phone with his girl and starts getting scared (as kids do) that a full grown man is coming after him. After Zimmerman finally tracks him down, Trayvon is so scared that he pushes and maybe even throws a punch at zimmerman. They wrestle for a few seconds, long enough for the kid to yell for help, but doesn't stop fighting back. Zimmerman, being the pussy that he looks like, decides that Trayvon is hostile and wants to hurt him so he pulls his gun and shoots him. Then he realizes that Trayvon was just a kid and had no weapon so he claims that he was the one screaming for help. :nuts:

I haven't listened to the audio yet, but from the articles I've read, this Zimmerman guy sounds like a tough guy, cop-wannabe douche. He supposedly had made over forty 911 calls to the cops about crime in his neighborhood.

he called 911 in the last case too, and no articles I've read contested the fact that the 911 operator told him NOT to follow Martin. So he went out of his way to confront the kid.

a couple other articles I've read quote Martin's girlfriend (who he was on the phone with) as telling her that some guy was following him, and he was going to walk fast to get away, but wouldn't run. Not sure if those are true or not.

My guess is, Zimmerman finally catches up to the kid and tries to push him around. Martin stands up for himself, or at least refuses to take shit from Zimmerman, who then shoots him, figuring (correctly) that the local cops will take his side and he won't see any consequences of his actions.

Thumb · Mar 23, 2012

The fact that the guy ignored the 911 dispatchers instructions not to follow the kid is what will get him convicted in the end.

He was actively seeking a confrontation while carrying a loaded pistol, he wasn't "Standing his ground", he was "seek and destroy".

deathroh · Mar 23, 2012

Diggler Cometh said:
This happened 20 minutes from my house. A day later two 14 year old white girls were purposely ran over in a neigboring town from me by black teenagers. One of them was killed.. Where is her rally? Oh... That would be racist. I'm sick of these double standards. What happens when a hard working white man is killed by a black crack head trying to rob him for his wallet? Nothing. If a white man does it, all hell breaks loose.

Just to verify, I'm not supporting the man who killed that boy. Obviously. Just the double standards in America.

I think the main thing to take away from this is that Diggler supports the double standards in America.

Michchamp · Mar 23, 2012

MI_Thumb said:
The fact that the guy ignored the 911 dispatchers instructions not to follow the kid is what will get him convicted in the end.

He was actively seeking a confrontation while carrying a loaded pistol, he wasn't "Standing his ground", he was "seek and destroy".

yeah, basically HUNDREDS of years of jurisprudence held that you generally have a duty to avoid harm if you can. The only exception to that was if you were in your own home. That is, if you willingly put yourself in a bad situation where you HAD to use deadly force, or if you could safely get away without it, you couldn't use self-defense as a defense to a murder charge.

This was simply common sense... otherwise murder would be de facto legal as long as there were no witnesses around to refute your self-defense claim.

But as we've seen, there's a logical, intelligent way to do things... and then there's the "Florida Way."

Jessica · Mar 23, 2012

http://gawker.com/5894647/how-to-ge...-unarmed-black-teen-trayvon-martin-teaches-us

Pretty good read and it shows what a fucking lunatic Zimmerman is.

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