I need for the Tigers to play well, and Michigan and the Lions to get off to great starts in football.

UFA - Stuart, Lidstrom, Hudler, Holmstrom, Conklin

RFA- Helm, Abdelkador, Quincey


So, waiting game on Lidstrom.

Stuart is shot, in my opinion. A warrior in his day, but seems too slow now.

Holmstrom should be done. He is Lidstrom's buddy, though, so you never know.

I think Hudler is OK. I know he's universally despised, but if he comes in under 3 million, he's not bad. The guy was the second leading goal scorer, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

Conklin gone, obviously.

RFA-

Sign Helm and Abby.

I don't mind Quincey for the last pairing. He's a bit more physical than any D-man except Stuart, now that Ericsson has decided to be a marshmallow.


Overall, I think more speed on D and hopefully more physical. And up front, much more physical. The Wings need to be tough to play against again. I'd like to see a couple of impact players and some grittier role players. After a few early exits, it's time for a culture change.

jimrice said:

UFA - Stuart, Lidstrom, Hudler, Holmstrom, Conklin

RFA- Helm, Abdelkador, Quincey


So, waiting game on Lidstrom.

Stuart is shot, in my opinion. A warrior in his day, but seems too slow now.

Holmstrom should be done. He is Lidstrom's buddy, though, so you never know.

I think Hudler is OK. I know he's universally despised, but if he comes in under 3 million, he's not bad. The guy was the second leading goal scorer, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

Conklin gone, obviously.

RFA-

Sign Helm and Abby.

I don't mind Quincey for the last pairing. He's a bit more physical than any D-man except Stuart, now that Ericsson has decided to be a marshmallow.


Overall, I think more speed on D and hopefully more physical. And up front, much more physical. The Wings need to be tough to play against again. I'd like to see a couple of impact players and some grittier role players. After a few early exits, it's time for a culture change.

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I agree with all of this. Especially about getting grittier. Teams have taken liberties with our players year after year and it's taken its toll.

How about some bolder moves though? Trade Zetterberg? What could we get for him? I think we've held our hand too long and allowed some of our stars to lose much of their value. Zetterberg would have garnered a king's ransom a couple years ago, not so sure now. The goal is always the cup in Detroit and I think we're a lot more than a few tweaks away from winning a cup right now. I want to see wholesale changes.

johnny2x2x said:

I agree with all of this. Especially about getting grittier. Teams have taken liberties with our players year after year and it's taken its toll.

How about some bolder moves though? Trade Zetterberg? What could we get for him? I think we've held our hand too long and allowed some of our stars to lose much of their value. Zetterberg would have garnered a king's ransom a couple years ago, not so sure now. The goal is always the cup in Detroit and I think we're a lot more than a few tweaks away from winning a cup right now. I want to see wholesale changes.

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I agree, Zetterberg's decline has been disappointing. That said, he's still consistently one of the most dangerous players on the team as well as being a quality defender. He's still very valuable even if he's not a top 10 player in this league anymore.

The issue is how do you motivate a guy like that to keep working at being in shape and playing hard? He's got a cup, he's got his money, I don't know the answer honestly.

The same issue with Franzen, but unlike Z, Franzen is completely useless as a lesser player. He basically just quit. I don't think they'll deal him only because he's a 25 goal scorer with a 3+ million cap hit, that's not bad at all even if he's a quitter. They need to get more gritty forwards though because he really cannot be relied on at this point.

Also, Stuart will go, that's fine, sign Suter, ditch Quincey & White if possible. I would like to see: Lidstrom, Suter, Kronwall, Ericsson, Smith, Kindl. That is a quality defense core that is well within the realm of possibility. I really think Quincey and White would just be addition by subtraction.

It's tough to remember, but Zetterberg had over 40 goals in the cup year.

But, I don't think the Wings can trade him. Who would they get?

I vehemently disagree about Kindl. I think he's terrible. Any pressure at all and he coughs it up. I've seen enough of that guy to last a lifetime.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg need better wingers, especially Datsyuk. Bert, Franzen and Cleary were disappointing. It got so bad that Nyquist had to be moved there.

No way I would get rid of White and Quincy and bring up Kindly. Kindly shouldn't even play in the NHL.

jimrice said:

It's tough to remember, but Zetterberg had over 40 goals in the cup year.

But, I don't think the Wings can trade him. Who would they get?

I vehemently disagree about Kindl. I think he's terrible. Any pressure at all and he coughs it up. I've seen enough of that guy to last a lifetime.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg need better wingers, especially Datsyuk. Bert, Franzen and Cleary were disappointing. It got so bad that Nyquist had to be moved there.

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Re: Kindl, what would you do then? Just never play him because he's a young player and gives up turnovers? Fact is, excluding the turnovers, he plays defense better than White or Quincey, he takes fewer penalties and he has more raw skill. You have to give players like that some time. The Wings wouldn't even have Big E anymore if we just looked at turnovers of a young player to decide they suck and are not worth continuing with.

Big E played a lot better this year. Stuart does need to be gone. He looked slow out there. Quincy was bad too, but maybe he needs to adjust to the team? Cleary and Homer are too banged up to contribute anymore, time for new blood. Youth and energy is needed on the third and fourth lines. Not sure what the deal is, but last two years, we haven't been able to score in the playoffs. I calculated out our monthly goals for/against average:
Oct: 2.44/2.22
Nov: 3.29/2.00
Dec: 3.60/2.20
Jan: 2.77/2.61
Feb: 2.77/2.38
Mar: 2.71/3.21

Goals For went down through the season, Goals against went up. When you look at the trend, things didn't really look good going into the playoffs. Injuries to Dats, Jimmy, Nick, Big E affected this, but fatigue probably did too. What we really need is a sniper, somebody that can put the puck in the net and not be streaky about it.

I think Kindl's value is at its highest right now. I think the more he plays, the worse he'll look to possible trade partners.


Very interesting stuff there, evolution.

Every game i watch Kindl he coughed up the puck in the zone multiple times.. it was the reason he was benched for the playoffs. I say trade him.

I honestly can see the Wings packaging Kindl is a trade. Babcock/Holland got a long hard look at him this season and then went and spent a 1st rd pick to get a player to replace him..that's not a good sign for him. Add in the fact that Smith has seemed to surpass him in the Defensive depth chart and all signs poiny towards him bring somewhere else next year.

As for what the team needs to do in the offseason, I actually think that White was pretty solid this year. The defense as a whole was pretty good actually. Sure they had some bad breakdowns but I think we have solid depth on the back end.

I would like the Wings to get a backup goalie for Howard who can play 20+ games and,give Howard a rest. Howard is one of the best goalies in the league when healthy and fresh, and we've just seen first hand how important a good goalie is the playoffs.

I want Zach Parise. the guy has scored 30+ goals 5 years in a row...nuff said.

I want them to get two to 3 other forwards that are under 30. I'd like them to be really good at one aspect of the game be that faceoffs, back checking, passing, or scoring. We need a new look on offense..too may guys are floating around out there. Bring in fresh blood and see how they respond to Babcock.

If we can do that I will be very happy and will be looking forward to next season.

I think too many people here are looking at turnovers in a vacuum much the same way many did with Ericsson did last year. If all you care about is turnovers, yeah Kindl stinks. If you look at the total package he's actually decent with the potential to be a top 4 blueliner. Turnovers are a young player's mistake, young players typically learn from mistakes and they need time to learn from them. Trading away a rookie because he makes a few mistakes is just dumb, you would trade every rookie if you did that.

Potential to be a top 4? Seriously? Based on what? He was decent in the minors, but is not a stellar offensive player, a stellar defensive player or physical in any way. His potential seems to be a regular d-man in the last pairing that plays 12-15.

It's not just turnovers for me. I'd like a d-man to have some specialty. Shot blocker, big hitter, big shooter, good passer or penalty kill specialist. What do you think are Kindl's skills, because I don't see them.

jimrice said:

Potential to be a top 4? Seriously? Based on what? He was decent in the minors, but is not a stellar offensive player, a stellar defensive player or physical in any way. His potential seems to be a regular d-man in the last pairing that plays 12-15.

It's not just turnovers for me. I'd like a d-man to have some specialty. Shot blocker, big hitter, big shooter, good passer or penalty kill specialist. What do you think are Kindl's skills, because I don't see them.

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He's a good passer, good stick control, particularly with stickhandling and lifting sticks to get control of the puck, he carries the puck up ice well. He's got an ok shot. His only real negative is the turnovers from what I've seen. Unfortunately, when you turn the puck over 2-4 times a game and it results in a goal or two, people will tend to remember that and let it bias their opinions of the rest of your game. Though I don't know that you are doing that here. If you think there are other glaring weaknesses in this game aside from turnovers, I would be curious to hear them because I don't see many. Maybe his biggest problem is that although he is good or at least ok at many things, he is not truly great at many.

I think we are witnessing a lull in Detroit's dominance. Key players aging, other past performers in full decline and no clear heir apparents in the Wings.

byco42 said:

I think we are witnessing a lull in Detroit's dominance. Key players aging, other past performers in full decline and no clear heir apparents in the Wings.

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I agree with that but lets not all give up hope and become like the non existent Col fan base. After the 2005-2006 the same thing could be said for the team. Zetterburg and Datsyuk were on the roster but not many people, my self included thought they would become the players to carry the team. A few moves by Holland as well as some players taking a step up in production and this team could be back on top in a short time. The advantage that Det has is they are able to attract free agents so they are only a few moves away from contention.

mabre321 said:

I agree with that but lets not all give up hope and become like the non existent Col fan base. After the 2005-2006 the same thing could be said for the team. Zetterburg and Datsyuk were on the roster but not many people, my self included thought they would become the players to carry the team.

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Pavel and Henrik were #1 and #2 in team scoring in 05-06.

I think the team needs a shake up, but I don't think they should go as far as trading Zetterberg or Datsyuk. Those guys have proven they have what it takes to win.

byco42 said:

Pavel and Henrik were #1 and #2 in team scoring in 05-06.

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Should have clarified that better to not sound so stupid. What i meant was there was a lot of questions if they could ever lead the team to a championship having the "soft euro label". Also few people would have thought they could play the defensive game they played. My point was that just a few tweaks to a roster can turn a team in the down turn into a championship team.