michchamp said:

SO... did you brutally tear apart her essay using all the ammunition everyone helpfully provided in that thread yet?

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I'm hoping he went with my approach, youtubed it and rises to 'dad who shot his daughter's laptop' fame.

cheeno said:

I'm hoping he went with my approach, youtubed it and rises to 'dad who shot his daughter's laptop' fame.

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I hope so too. Even though he'd be in jail for a while, the board would raise a glass and have a toast in his honor; maybe retire his screen name or something like that.

I said my piece the night before I posted that. I'm waiting to see what her teacher says before I drive it home. If she gets an A and gloats about it Cheeno's option is on the table.

Personally, I think you should hammer home the worst part about the whole thing. The end never justifies the means. If you ever think it does, then you are already half way gone and have already started down the path of becoming that which you despise.

There are entire treatises on that subject alone that would give ample material to argue against most of that paper. It all falls apart just on attacking that one axiom that it relies on.

KAWDUP said:

Personally, I think you should hammer home the worst part about the whole thing. The end never justifies the means. If you ever think it does, then you are already half way gone and have already started down the path of becoming that which you despise.

There are entire treatises on that subject alone that would give ample material to argue against most of that paper. It all falls apart just on attacking that one axiom that it relies on.

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the thing is, you can even concede "the ends justify the means," and her argument still falls apart; there's ample testimony out there to refute the usefulness of torture as an interrogation technique.

I understand what you are saying. It sounds like she is already past listening to reason on the usefulness of torturing - much of her paper seems to be dedicated to showing how "useful" it is. So while what you say may be true, attacking the fundamental problem will work better against a closed minded conservative viewpoint. It also presents a stronger case, than much of what you brought up that would be attributed to talking points rather than facts.

For you - I would just consider the source, and then I would stand a better chance of convincing her the sky was orange and 2 + 2 = 5. :*)

I had a good opportunity to bring it back up yesterday, and as soon as I got started she went into, "Well, I just wrote that based on what I found in my research, I don't think I really believe all of that." mode. I'm not sure to what degree that is true, but I can understand a high school student coming up with an idea for a paper, then just trying to find whatever information they can that backs their stance. I explained that she needs to research all aspects of a topic that she's going to write a paper on, and mentioned a couple of the things brought up in the other thread before letting her off the hook.

I guess this is where her just being a high school student comes into play...at this point they really are just focusing on style and form. Hopefully this will kickstart her focus on being proud of, and able to defend, her content as well.

KAWDUP said:

...
For you - I would just consider the source, and then I would stand a better chance of convincing her the sky was orange and 2 + 2 = 5. :*)

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Funny you'd mention that, she's a bigtime reader, so I bought her 1984 last year. She started reading it, but got bored during the first section and never finished it. Can't really blame her since the beginning is slow as hell, but maybe I'll try to talk her into finishing it.

deathroh said:

Funny you'd mention that, she's a bigtime reader, so I bought her 1984 last year. She started reading it, but got bored during the first section and never finished it. Can't really blame her since the beginning is slow as hell, but maybe I'll try to talk her into finishing it.

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if she's consistent, she will defend "Big Brother."

or she might take the easy way out, and say "See, Communism is bad" without understanding that Orwell wrote it to denounce all totalitarian governments, regardless of underlying ideology.

michchamp said:

if she's consistent, she will defend "Big Brother."

or she might take the easy way out, and say "See, Communism is bad" without understanding that Orwell wrote it to denounce all totalitarian governments, regardless of underlying ideology.

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I'm sure she'll espouse the virtues of Room 101, since it allowed Winston to rejoin society and be happy.