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ESPN top 100 players of all time 1-25

tycobb420

tycobb420

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
2,782
25. Tris Speaker
24. Tom Seaver
23. Randy Johnson
22. Frank Robinson
21. Joe DiMaggio

20. Joe Morgan
19. Albert Pujols
18. A-Fraud
17. Cy Young
16. Mike Schmidt
15. Rogers Hornsby
14. Rickey
13. Greg Maddux
12. Walter Johnson
11. Lou Gehrig (should be top 10)

10. Honus Wagner
9. Mickey Mantle
8. Stan Musial
7. Roger Clemens (w/o steroids, nowhere near the top 10)
6. Ty Cobb
5. Hank Aaron
4. Ted Williams
3. Barry Bonds (w/o drugs, he is behind Griffey Jr. and not in the conversation as GOAT).
2. Willie Mays
1. Babe Ruth (duh)
 
Give it a few years, and if Trout is not just a flash in the pan on offense, and he hits a bit north of .300, with 50+ SBs and 30+ homers, then ESPN will be sticking Mike in the top 100. Probably from 75-100 then several more years, 50-75, and so on.
 
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Aaron is too high, Walter Johnson is too low. And I have always thought DiMaggio is overrated. Just my opinions. Not even getting into the roiders being high on the list.
 
You have to be incredibly ignorant to think Griffey Jr. was even close to Bonds as a player, steroids or not.
 
Pre Cinci Griffey was an amazing player but once he left the M's his career fell off bad. I loved watching him play he could do it all.
 
I am a huge Willie Mays and Roberto Clemente fan. Not just for the players they were but also the men they were off the field as well. I never saw them play but love the history of the game. One of my prized possessions are rookie cards of them both.
 
If we are assuming Griffey was clean and we know Bonds roided, I would take Griffey over Bonds if both were clean.
 
Before 1998, I heard folks talking about Jr. in the same vein as the all time greats. I did not hear them speak of Bonds in the same light.
 
tycobb420 said:
Before 1998, I heard folks talking about Jr. in the same vein as the all time greats. I did not hear them speak of Bonds in the same light.
Click to expand...

You must've been hanging around some ignorant folks.

Bonds was a far better hitter, not even close.

Griffeys best offensive season, 1993, wasn't even as good as Bonds average offensive season from 1990-1998.

Bonds was much better on the base paths as well.

The positional advantage wasn't close to making up for the fact that Bonds blew him away in all other facets of the game.

The fact is, steroids or no, it's ignorant to suggest Griffey was even close to Bonds as a player.
 
the real crime is that trammel and whitaker were completely ignored. they should have been in 76-100 at least but i dont even think they were in the honorable mentions.
 
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mjsb2 said:
You must've been hanging around some ignorant folks.

Bonds was a far better hitter, not even close.

Griffeys best offensive season, 1993, wasn't even as good as Bonds average offensive season from 1990-1998.

Bonds was much better on the base paths as well.

The positional advantage wasn't close to making up for the fact that Bonds blew him away in all other facets of the game.

The fact is, steroids or no, it's ignorant to suggest Griffey was even close to Bonds as a player.
Click to expand...

Clearly you don't care that Bonds was on roids. Griffey is most definitely in the same class as Bonds. Without roids, Bonds career numbers would be very similar to Griffey's.

I think Griffey was clean. I have no way of being 100% positive. His career arc is similar to most player pre-roids era players. Bonds was dirty. His career follows the pattern of a roider. Without those inflated years (1999-2007), he is not a top 5 player.
 
Barry Bonds 1988-1998: .297/.423/.572/.995, 173 OPS+, 91.9 fWAR
Ken Griffey Jr 1989-1999: .299/.380/.569/.948, 149 OPS+, 73 fWAR


Bonds was CLEARLY the better player pre-roids (and those numbers dont even include his first couple years). He would likely be good enough to have been a HoF-er before his roid years, what he did after should only count for him.

i wanna make this clear: i DESPISE bonds. i hope he gets hit by a bus. but i also dont care that much about his roid use, especially given his talent beforehand and the fact that no one gives a damn about things like ruth's/mantle's drinking or mays' amphetamine use. i hate steroids, but 90s roiders did it at a time when baseball didnt care, so it shouldnt ban them from the HoF. Bonds deserves to be in, as does clemens, etc. the only ones who should be banned are the ones like palmeiro who got caught after the rules changed. just my 2 cents.
 
spockmaster said:
Barry Bonds 1988-1998: .297/.423/.572/.995, 173 OPS+, 91.9 fWAR
Ken Griffey Jr 1989-1999: .299/.380/.569/.948, 149 OPS+, 73 fWAR


Bonds was CLEARLY the better player pre-roids (and those numbers dont even include his first couple years). He would likely be good enough to have been a HoF-er before his roid years, what he did after should only count for him.

i wanna make this clear: i DESPISE bonds. i hope he gets hit by a bus. but i also dont care that much about his roid use, especially given his talent beforehand and the fact that no one gives a damn about things like ruth's/mantle's drinking or mays' amphetamine use. i hate steroids, but 90s roiders did it at a time when baseball didnt care, so it shouldnt ban them from the HoF. Bonds deserves to be in, as does clemens, etc. the only ones who should be banned are the ones like palmeiro who got caught after the rules changed. just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Bonds was on pace to be top 10 player all time without roids.

Pre-roid Bonds is in the argument for most underrated player of all time.
 
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thehippo73 said:
Clearly you don't care that Bonds was on roids. Griffey is most definitely in the same class as Bonds. Without roids, Bonds career numbers would be very similar to Griffey's.

I think Griffey was clean. I have no way of being 100% positive. His career arc is similar to most player pre-roids era players. Bonds was dirty. His career follows the pattern of a roider. Without those inflated years (1999-2007), he is not a top 5 player.
Click to expand...

Griffeys best offensive season wasn't even as good as Bonds average offensive season.

No, Griffey wasn't in the same class.
 
mjsb2 said:
Bonds was on pace to be top 10 player all time without roids.

Pre-roid Bonds is in the argument for most underrated player of all time.
Click to expand...
yep. he never was as highly regarded as he should have been, probably because he's such a huge douche and was never good with the media.
 
spockmaster said:
yep. he never was as highly regarded as he should have been, probably because he's such a huge douche and was never good with the media.
Click to expand...

Albert Belle says hi too,
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/belleal01.shtml
1994-1996 two third place MVP and a second place MVP finish the year he had a 50 doubles and 50 homerun season.
Before the degenerative hip forced him to retire he was a sociopath masking as tremendous offensive player.
Even after he retired, iirc he tried to run some kids over during trick or treat?
 
spockmaster said:
Barry Bonds 1988-1998: .297/.423/.572/.995, 173 OPS+, 91.9 fWAR
Ken Griffey Jr 1989-1999: .299/.380/.569/.948, 149 OPS+, 73 fWAR


Bonds was CLEARLY the better player pre-roids (and those numbers dont even include his first couple years). He would likely be good enough to have been a HoF-er before his roid years, what he did after should only count for him.

i wanna make this clear: i DESPISE bonds. i hope he gets hit by a bus. but i also dont care that much about his roid use, especially given his talent beforehand and the fact that no one gives a damn about things like ruth's/mantle's drinking or mays' amphetamine use. i hate steroids, but 90s roiders did it at a time when baseball didnt care, so it shouldnt ban them from the HoF. Bonds deserves to be in, as does clemens, etc. the only ones who should be banned are the ones like palmeiro who got caught after the rules changed. just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

You do know that 80-90% players were drinkers right up through the 60's/70's,
my guess is that 40% used amphetamines, higher %% of players over 30 years old.
after the no world series and strike in 1994, baseball needed to bring the fans back, so they knew about it, but let it go on until the egg on Selig's face covered his bald spot.
 
they were all drinkers, but not as many were severe alcoholics like mantle.
 
From ages 21-30 (10 years)

Griffey 10x AS, 9x GG, 7x SS, 1x MVP 65.2 WAR 128.88 RC/650 .975 OPS 1011 R 400 HRs 1129 RBI 141 SB

Bonds 5x AS, 5x GG, 5x SS, 3x MVP 71.6 WAR 124.32 RC/650 .938 OPS 999 R 292 HR 864 RBI 340 SB
 
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