6 more people charged in Flint Water scandal

[biggunsbob]

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2016/07/new_charges_announced_in_flint.html

Is this more lower level workers taking the sword ?

 

[tomdalton22]

or maybe the investigation revealed that it was those people that were actually responsible for what happened.

 

[biggunsbob]

Don't care if it's a Democrats or Republicans who fucked up in Flint they should all go to jail if found guilty. Just freaking awful what happened but I am sure higher ups will get off the hook which is a shame.

 

[Michchamp]

AP/Freep now reporting that Snyder and other officials from his office are being charged in connection with the Flint Water poisoning (link)

Current AG Dana Nessel dropped her predecessor's investigation against Snyder when she got in office. I assumed at the time it was some kind of sleazy back room deal that lead to that. Glad to see this is back on.

 

[sggatecl]

I didn't follow the Flint water crisis much other than driving water there a few weekends. Still don't know the root cause. Somewhere down the line, someone made a really poor decision. They need to pay.

 

[Michchamp]

I didn't follow the Flint water crisis much other than driving water there a few weekends. Still don't know the root cause. Somewhere down the line, someone made a really poor decision. They need to pay.

The Emergency Manager thing screwed up quite a few cities across the state, mostly majority African American ones. I remember the public schools in North Muskegon (or Muskegon Heights it was) were functionally destroyed.

the situation in Flint, involving the municipal water system, actually ended up killing people.

I read a long retrospective on this from a year or two ago. There was a group, closely tied to Snyder's office, seeking to privatize the water for that part of the state, and getting Flint off Detroit water was part of that.

They basically forced that change, knowingly disregarding warnings from civil engineers and health departments, that the river they switched too was contaminated and not safe to drink from, and further corroded pipes, making the problem worse

If you're curious, I'll try to find the article

Snyder had been sending around his "fixer" -who was some ex-cop /ex military thug - to buy victims' silence and if that failed to threaten them.

This isn't a partisan attack... Obama trashed his reputation going to bat for Snyder... neo-liberal privatization scams have the support of both parties. This was just awful.

 

[zyxt9]

The dam breaks last year showed not much has changed. MI govt screwed up in years before that happened. They pointed fingers elsewhere, but they deserved considerable blame for their part in that mess. At least, somehow, no one died from that.

 

[Michchamp]

for anybody looking for a long, non-partisan background read on the topic:

A deep dive into the source of Flint?s water crisis
From the Metro Times in 2017

On Wednesday, as this story was going to press, Flint Mayor Karen Weaver unexpectedly announced support for a plan to permanently stay with the Great Lakes Water Authority, which has been the city?s temporary water source since abandoning use of the Flint River 18 months ago. This new plan allows Flint to escape a controversial deal committing it to future use of Karegnondi pipeline water treated at the city?s costly, aging water plant. Here?s the story behind that ill-fated pipeline deal and its connection to Flint?s ongoing crisis?
​

 

[Michchamp]

The dam breaks last year showed not much has changed. MI govt screwed up in years before that happened. They pointed fingers elsewhere, but they deserved considerable blame for their part in that mess. At least, somehow, no one died from that.

it's insane that a private individual or corporation could be allowed to own a dam that large, where the effects of a failure could result in fatalities and substantial property losses to other people.


also insane that in this day and age, state and local governments are basically powerless against two-bit slumlords like him.

 

[Spartanmack]

Wow, the non-partisan background where Peter Hammer, economist, law professor and the head of the Wayne State DJK Center for Civil Rights and advisor to the ACLU, found that racism unequivocally played a major roll in the crisis. And if that's not enough non-partisan evidence, the Michigan Civil Rights Commission also found racism to be a key factor.

I particularly like this piece of verbal diarrhea from Hammer:

"Nothing about what happened in Flint was accidental, Flint needs to be understood as a morality play illustrating the dangers of emergency management and fiscal austerity. Flint needs to stand as a profound multi-generational testimony to the dangers of strategic-structural racism in the same manner as the Tuskegee tragedy forever shames medical science."

This guy is an economist, and he calls emergency management and fiscal austerity "dangerous" - classic. So what do we do with chronically failing, bankrupt cities? Bail them out and let them do it all over again? So if I understand this totally unbiased assessment, fiscal austerity is racist and that caused Flint's water crisis and structural racism is the root cause of municipal distress, not decades of irresponsible, corrupt and inept city management. I guess we can add austerity and fiscal responsibility to the list of dog whistles to white supremacists.

Thanks for that highly enlightening, totally unsurprising, "non-partisan" and I'll add not remotely biased or moronic (that's sarcasm, except the bit about it being unsurprising) background read.

I'll look later, but I think when we originally discussed this topic, the new water source deal had already been negotiated by the City Council or the Mayor before the emergency manager was appointed by Snyder - all of those people are black, by the way so I don't think the change was motivated by racism. I guess it could be considered negligent on the part of the emergency manager to rely on the report and recommendation to approve the deal given to him by the City Council, but I have a really hard time seeing how that is racist - what if the Emergency Manager went against the Council's recommendation and shot it down, would that be racist?

 

[zyxt9]

it's insane that a private individual or corporation could be allowed to own a dam that large, where the effects of a failure could result in fatalities and substantial property losses to other people.


also insane that in this day and age, state and local governments are basically powerless against two-bit slumlords like him.

The MI government was, IMHO, a 50/50 partner in creating the situation.

As a lawyer, I'm sure you can appreciate the legal back and forth that went on. MI demanded changes get made, which they were right about demanding; however, any changes would result in changes of water levels in various locations that would endanger protected wildlife causing plans to be scrapped. More legalities, awaiting approval of new plans, no one in a hurry regardless of how much data came back that it was becoming a bigger concern...yet can't do anything because of another environmental or legal issue...or complaints from residents because a solution would impact the shorelines and property values.

Wait long enough and Mother Nature will say "Enough!" and solve the problem for everyone. Neither the owners nor the MI government should proclaim it was solely the fault of the other side, they all need to be held accountable so that hopefully future situations can be resolved quickly.

 

[Michchamp]

The MI government was, IMHO, a 50/50 partner in creating the situation.

As a lawyer, I'm sure you can appreciate the legal back and forth that went on. MI demanded changes get made, which they were right about demanding; however, any changes would result in changes of water levels in various locations that would endanger protected wildlife causing plans to be scrapped. More legalities, awaiting approval of new plans, no one in a hurry regardless of how much data came back that it was becoming a bigger concern...yet can't do anything because of another environmental or legal issue...or complaints from residents because a solution would impact the shorelines and property values.

Wait long enough and Mother Nature will say "Enough!" and solve the problem for everyone. Neither the owners nor the MI government should proclaim it was solely the fault of the other side, they all need to be held accountable so that hopefully future situations can be resolved quickly.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same dam. I remember reading about basic repairs that needed to be done, not like renovations or changes.

The state was telling him the dam was in danger of failing if he didn't fix it, and he refused and it failed.

But at least no one violated HIS right to use his private property. Though it was a bad day for the property values of everyone else who lived around the dam, but they are probably just a bunch of socialist crybabies.

 

[Michchamp]

Here:

The collapse of the Edenville Dam came despite years of warnings about its “inadequate” condition.
In fact, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC), which oversees hydroelectric dams in the USA, revoked the Edenville Dam owner’s operating licence in 2018 because of a “longstanding failure to increase the project’s spillway capacity to safely pass flood flows,” among other issues.
The dam’s owner Boyce Hydro Power – which also owns the Sanford Dam – had repeatedly been told to upgrade the Edenville Dam since a 2004 report concluded that it would not survive a “probable maximum flood event”. To comply, the dam needed either a bigger spillway or better protection against damage from overtopping, the inspection report said.

​

The license was revoked in 2018. The dam failed in 2020.

I think if I'm the government, and I revoke your license to operate a dam, after ~14 years of you ignoring reports from engineers that it needs to be upgraded to withstand higher flood events (which due to climate change happen every couple years now), and you haven't started repairing it within 60-90 days of the license being revoked, I get to take it over and repair it myself. if you want it back, you go to court, pay all the costs of the lawsuit, all my costs to take it over, and the costs of the upgrades

 

[zyxt9]

https://www.ourmidland.com/news/art...ers-clashed-with-state-for-years-15369698.php

This provides some degree of the timeline I was talking about with the back and forth legalities.

Some additional info not listed in this article includes exactly how the company was supposed to reroute the water while making repairs, which was an additional source of back and forth.

I fail to understand how state or even federal law would not be available to take over ownership of a dam that was in obvious need of repair. Govt has various ways to do that, do they not? Protecting the people and property as well as environment should be paramount... so with all the neglect that ha happened, why is it they were unable to take control of the situation? Fix the problems and then auction off the dam with the understanding the next owner better keep it in proper condition. Fine the company that failed to maintain it forcing them to cover the expenses in whole or part.

These are things a govt should be able and willing to do. A govt should not have years of data saying the structure is degrading and is below acceptable integrity levels. The owner should have 1 year to make all necessary repairs or forfeit the structure and pay fines.

I am saying this as a Conservative who prefers small govt...THIS is one area a govt must protect its people, properties, and environment because chances are slim the company will do what is right.