Did I miss something?

[Spartanmack]

Or does Scottie Hazelton really still have a job? If he's not going to fire him, at least make him shave the beard - you shouldn't be able to sport the bone crusher when you're getting your ass kicked every week. I just watched his press conference from a couple days before Maryland and it's clear he has no idea what the problem is. They can't fire him fast enough - hopefully they don't give Barnett a 9th shot at being DC.

This is the worst defense I've seen at MSU in really long time. We're not Alabama, we can't rush 4 guys and get pressure while 2 LBs never blitz and get lost in coverage on every play and 5 DBs watch guys catch balls all over the field. This defense is absolutely horrendous. OSU is going to throw for 3.5 miles against us this week. If they're not going to change the scheme, at least blitz both LBs 80% of the time - they're not covering anyone anyway. And spare me the "our offense needs to stay on the field" stuff. Sure, there's some truth to that because our offense is probably worse, but I can't remember the las time we forced a punt in the first quarter - do we have any in the first half this year?

Obviously, our offensive line is still garbage and this tandem of running backs that were supposed to be adequate replacements aren't going anywhere. I feel bad for Reed - guy stayed only to get hurt and play hobbled with a bottom tier QB. He's definitely hurt his draft stock by sticking around.

 

[JScottWriter]

They seem confused on every play. Haladay missed a ton of tackles. Speed either doesn?t have any or is just trying to get more tackles. He?s always trailing a wr and not even look like he?s trying to catch up.

 

[Spartanmack]

yeah, that was frustrating as hell watching Haladay bouncing off people when he was there to make a play. Seems like everyone is going for the big knock down instead of wrapping people up - been complaining about this for what seems like years now.

 

[Michchamp]

I hate to say it (not really), but I don't think firing one (1) guy is going to change much, or fix your defensive woes.

Look at the hype train that DL coach rode in on, money flying around, all the transfers out, and having to seek out transfers just to fill out the roster... Tucker's created a mess there. That's no way to build a team.

Maybe he'll learn from it, maybe it wasn't intentional.

I also hate to say it, but some of the excuses flying around after all the hype about "building this" and "changing that" remind me of a more notorious former Michigan coach who cannot be named...

 

[Spartanmack]

I hate to say it (not really), but I don't think firing one (1) guy is going to change much, or fix your defensive woes.

Look at the hype train that DL coach rode in on, money flying around, all the transfers out, and having to seek out transfers just to fill out the roster... Tucker's created a mess there. That's no way to build a team.

Maybe he'll learn from it, maybe it wasn't intentional.

I also hate to say it, but some of the excuses flying around after all the hype about "building this" and "changing that" remind me of a more notorious former Michigan coach who cannot be named...

I hate to say it because it's so obvious, but keeping him will change even less - literally nothing. The guy is clearly incompetent and needs to go.

Regarding the hype around Jordan - he was hired in January this year and thanks to our dumbass DC, we're only rushing 4 guys on 90%+ of defensive plays. I think it's a bit premature to call him a bust or a miss or whatever you're implying.

As for how Tucker's building the team, transfers out weren't a problem - the number may have seemed high but it was mostly scrubs that weren't going to see playing time going to lesser schools where they have a shot at getting on the field. Walker and Nailor going the NFL had way more impact than all the transfers out combined. Plus the quality of transfers in were also better than what we lost. We had a couple 4 stars decommit and if that continues, then maybe we might have a problem but as it stands, we still have one of the best recruiting classes in decades coming in.

Aren't you the guy who was defending Harbaugh's mediocrity in years 3-6 of his tenure at uofm? I'm definitely not sold on Tucker, but it's too early to say he's building the team incorrectly. He inherited a dumpster fire and went 11-2 in his second year (and is 2-0 against michigan) with major contributions from the transfer portal. It's a bit premature to draw conclusions from this other than to say it shouldn't be this bad but there are some pretty obvious fixes to be made now or at least by the end of the season. It's clear that Scottie Hazelton has to go.

Maybe uofm will beat us at home this year to get to 5-10 since 2007 with all those wins against sub .500 MSU teams and you guys can pound your chests about being relevant again until OSU and born on third base, thinks he hit a triple Ryan Day beats you by 17+.

 

[Spartanmack]

I also hate to say it, but some of the excuses flying around after all the hype about "building this" and "changing that" remind me of a more notorious former Michigan coach who cannot be named...

What excuses are flying around? Johnny2x is the only apologist that posts on this board and he probably won't post again until hoops season starts. Not a single poster here is making any excuses for this performance. We seem to be pretty much on the same page about what's happening.

 

[Michchamp]

What excuses are flying around? Johnny2x is the only apologist that posts on this board and he probably won't post again until hoops season starts. Not a single poster here is making any excuses for this performance. We seem to be pretty much on the same page about what's happening.

No, not seeing any here, since sbee and johnny only post here in good times.



I mean on twitter and comments I see reported elsewhere.

 

[Michchamp]

Exactly how many players transferred out? I want to say I saw some really high number, like 55 or something, but the only links I found had long lists without tallies, and I didn't feel like spending an hour counting all the names.

I know they're "scrubs," but again... same shit RichRod slappies were saying about every player that left when their Hero stepped in to "clean house" after Lloyd Carr retired.

And Jordan is... a little light in the actual resume: "Despite never coaching football at the Div. 1 level, Jordan has trained over a hundred NFL Players, including former Super Bowl MVP Von Miller."

what the hell does "trained" mean? Von Miller won a Super Bowl in 2015, the same year Jordan was 25 and in his first coaching job at FCS Austin Peay at the time. How much can you train a guy who's already won a Super Bowl?

You clowns got sold a real bill of goods with this staff!

 

[Michchamp]

State is fighting a FOIA suit to keep Mel Tucker's contract private. Real shady.

I'm not sure what the actual termination clause terms are... this article from the State News says: "If Tucker is fired due to performance, he will still be owed the entirety of his contract, leaving Michigan State vulnerable if Tucker does not continue to succeed."

So MSU didn't give themselves ANY basis to fire him for performance issues over the entire 10 years. Yikes. He could go 0-12 every year and still be like the 3rd or 4th highest paid coach in CFB

Contract payments total $9.5 MM/year for 10 years, ending in 2031. That's a long ways away. Charlie Weis approves.

 

[JScottWriter]

Exactly how many players transferred out? I want to say I saw some really high number, like 55 or something, but the only links I found had long lists without tallies, and I didn't feel like spending an hour counting all the names.

I know they're "scrubs," but again... same shit RichRod slappies were saying about every player that left when their Hero stepped in to "clean house" after Lloyd Carr retired.

And Jordan is... a little light in the actual resume: "Despite never coaching football at the Div. 1 level, Jordan has trained over a hundred NFL Players, including former Super Bowl MVP Von Miller."

what the hell does "trained" mean? Von Miller won a Super Bowl in 2015, the same year Jordan was 25 and in his first coaching job at FCS Austin Peay at the time. How much can you train a guy who's already won a Super Bowl?

You clowns got sold a real bill of goods with this staff!

Jordan isn?t the DL coach, Marco Coleman is. Jordan is the Pass Rush Specialist which only Windom seems to be any good at. Jordan was brought in more for recruiting I would think since they have landed some pretty good recruits at DE. He must be doing something good at training pro athletes if they keep paying him to train them.

 

[Michchamp]

Jordan isn?t the DL coach, Marco Coleman is. Jordan is the Pass Rush Specialist which only Windom seems to be any good at. Jordan was brought in more for recruiting I would think since they have landed some pretty good recruits at DE. He must be doing something good at training pro athletes if they keep paying him to train them.

I don't get it. He never coached at the FBS/D1 level before landing a job at State, played college football at some place called Missouri S&T, then played some arena football before landing a 3rd rate asssitant coach gig & founding a football training company.

I'm open to the idea that he has some "top secret recipe" that helps players learn to rush a quarterback better (but somehow couldn't help himself play anywhere better than Missouri S&T or Arena Football...), and that justifies his role on staff & all the hype... but until State's defense starts actually playing defense, I assume his "recruiting" advantage involves funnelling money to recruits through his training company (or trying to).

 

[Spartanmack]

Exactly how many players transferred out? I want to say I saw some really high number, like 55 or something, but the only links I found had long lists without tallies, and I didn't feel like spending an hour counting all the names.

I know they're "scrubs," but again... same shit RichRod slappies were saying about every player that left when their Hero stepped in to "clean house" after Lloyd Carr retired.

And Jordan is... a little light in the actual resume: "Despite never coaching football at the Div. 1 level, Jordan has trained over a hundred NFL Players, including former Super Bowl MVP Von Miller."

what the hell does "trained" mean? Von Miller won a Super Bowl in 2015, the same year Jordan was 25 and in his first coaching job at FCS Austin Peay at the time. How much can you train a guy who's already won a Super Bowl?

You clowns got sold a real bill of goods with this staff!

I thought it was somewhere in the high teens to low 20s with 3 or 4 of them being d-backs (if they can't crack this lineup, they won't be missed). I don't recall hearing or seeing anything close to 55. I'd be pretty surprised if another 30+ players left and we first heard about it from a uofm troll, even if they were all from the scout team.

Jordan was brought in as a pass rush specialist after building a successful business training multiple NFL d-lineman to be better pass rushers. He's not a coordinator, he's not even a position coach - Coleman is our D-Line coach. Would you expect a decade or so of head coach/coordinator experience on the resume of someone who isn't even a position coach?

 

[Spartanmack]

State is fighting a FOIA suit to keep Mel Tucker's contract private. Real shady.

I'm not sure what the actual termination clause terms are... this article from the State News says: "If Tucker is fired due to performance, he will still be owed the entirety of his contract, leaving Michigan State vulnerable if Tucker does not continue to succeed."

So MSU didn't give themselves ANY basis to fire him for performance issues over the entire 10 years. Yikes. He could go 0-12 every year and still be like the 3rd or 4th highest paid coach in CFB

Contract payments total $9.5 MM/year for 10 years, ending in 2031. That's a long ways away. Charlie Weis approves.

this has all been discussed here on this forum when the contract was signed and again last week. Thanks for telling us nothing we don't already know.

 

[Spartanmack]

I don't get it. He never coached at the FBS/D1 level before landing a job at State, played college football at some place called Missouri S&T, then played some arena football before landing a 3rd rate asssitant coach gig & founding a football training company.

I'm open to the idea that he has some "top secret recipe" that helps players learn to rush a quarterback better (but somehow couldn't help himself play anywhere better than Missouri S&T or Arena Football...), and that justifies his role on staff & all the hype... but until State's defense starts actually playing defense, I assume his "recruiting" advantage involves funnelling money to recruits through his training company (or trying to).

Personally, for a specialty role reporting to a position coach, I think testimonials from guys like Von Miller, Gerald McCoy, Damon Harrison, Cameron Heyward and TJ Watt are more meaningful than being the former assistant to the DL coach at Youngstown State for 10 years. That's not to disparage Youngstown State - you may be aware some former Youngstown State coaches have had a tremendous amount of success coaching in the B1G.

And have you heard of NIL? No need to funnel money under the table to recruits like uofm used to with local bookies - maybe they still do since your staff seems to be too stupid to figure out how NIL works.

 

[Spartanmack]

Went to the game this weekend - was a long drive for an ass-kicking but we got to see some family in E Lansing, had a great tailgate, saw some friends from back in the day, and took my son (12) to his first football game in Spartan Stadium (first live game was MSU at osu in '19, when his favorite cousin was a freshman Buckeye - that was another ass-kicking received). And got to see more family in Ann Arbor Sunday night. After visiting both campuses, he's leaning toward MSU but thinks he could be happy in Columbus too and I learned both schools will offer in-state tuition to high academic achievers. Other than the game, it was a great trip.

Anyway, is Thorne going to be our starter again this week? I know it's limited data against weaker defenses, but Kim looks more poised and is clearly more accurate. Would that be the case against a better pass rush? I don't know, but Thorne clearly stinks. It's time to move on from him - I can't take another 6 weeks with this guy let alone another entire season. If we're preserving Houser's red shirt, give Kim a shot in something other than garbage time. What can it hurt?