LT Jarrett Horst retuning in 2022

[johnny2x2x]

He had to leave the team after the Michigan game for some personal problems, but he was a huge upgrade at LT this season and the offense wasn't the same without him.

IMO, this is more important for the team's success than Reed returning. The O Line is completely upgraded when he plays.

https://twitter.com/bmocj77/status/1479536030277685251?s=20

 

[Spartanmack]

Didn't he lead the team in holding and personal fouls? I'm happy to have some experience on the line but if I got to choose who declare/transferred he'd be in the top quarter of the list for offense.

 

[JScottWriter]

I just know when he was out during the Michigan game Campbell was getting abused. But yeah he?s a penalty machine.

 

[Spartanmack]

I just know when he was out during the Michigan game Campbell was getting abused. But yeah he?s a penalty machine.

I hear you but it's not at all clear that Horst could block Hutchinson or Ojabo. If I had a choice, I'd still rather have Nailor back than Horst.

 

[johnny2x2x]

I hear you but it's not at all clear that Horst could block Hutchinson or Ojabo. If I had a choice, I'd still rather have Nailor back than Horst.

Hutchinson and Ojabo did nothing all game against Horst. Nailer led the team in drops, but he developed nicely this year. Horst or another quality LT was a must get. Horst was MSU?s best lineman last year.

There?s plenty of talent at WR, Mosley is steady and ready to take a bigger role. Foster showed flashes, and Coleman is one of the fastest players on the team at 6-4, 210 lbs.

 

[Spartanmack]

Hutchinson and Ojabo did nothing all game against Horst. Nailer led the team in drops, but he developed nicely this year. Horst or another quality LT was a must get. Horst was MSU?s best lineman last year.

There?s plenty of talent at WR, Mosley is steady and ready to take a bigger role. Foster showed flashes, and Coleman is one of the fastest players on the team at 6-4, 210 lbs.

You sure about that - Horst shutting down Hutchinson and Ojabo?I've watched that game a few times and don't recall anyone having a particularly good outing against either of them. From the play-by-play, Horst had 2 holding penalties in that game, Campbell had one also.

And where are you getting the data that says Nailor led the team in drops from - is that even tracked? I can't find it anywhere. If you read his stats, he had a great year - 6th in B1G and 71st in the country in TD receptions sitting out 4.5 games. He's also 15th in the B1G and close to top 100 nationally in total receiving yards.

Personally, I think the difference between Nailor and Reed is small. OL may be a greater need but I still think losing Nailor is big. I also think he's making a mistake - as well as he played this year, I think he could benefit from another season in college.

 

[johnny2x2x]

You sure about that - Horst shutting down Hutchinson and Ojabo?I've watched that game a few times and don't recall anyone having a particularly good outing against either of them. From the play-by-play, Horst had 2 holding penalties in that game, Campbell had one also.

And where are you getting the data that says Nailor led the team in drops from - is that even tracked? I can't find it anywhere. If you read his stats, he had a great year - 6th in B1G and 71st in the country in TD receptions sitting out 4.5 games. He's also 15th in the B1G and close to top 100 nationally in total receiving yards.

Personally, I think the difference between Nailor and Reed is small. OL may be a greater need but I still think losing Nailor is big. I also think he's making a mistake - as well as he played this year, I think he could benefit from another season in college.

Hutchinson had 3 tackles and 1 sack that came on the other side when he was unblocked. Ojabo had 4 tackles, 2 sacks both against Campbell. They both did noting against Horst. And both of Horst's holding penalties were dubious, especially the first one where he was simply finishing a block away from the play.

Nailor was a solid #2 WR and had 1 monster game vs Rutgers. It was mentioned he led the team in drops on a broadcast, but I didn't see the official stat, but I also think it was obvious he had at least triple the drops of Reed or anyone else for that matter, he had 3 drops in the bowl game, and drops were a problem for him early in the season.

WR is pretty deep, Reed is a good #1 poised to build off his 1,000 yard. Mosley simply catches everything near him, he's got great hands, but I think he lacks the speed to take the top off from the defense. Foster is developing nice. Coleman is a freak athletically, could be the player who improves the most. And I think 1 of the freshman will have a role, Gates is really polished and looks like a Big Ten body already. Benard has a lot of talent too. But Henry is really underrated as a recruit and I think provides some electricity, he can fly.

The tackles we have on the roster who had played if Horst hadn't returned would have been Spencer Brown and no one else. Brown was a good run blocker this year and I think can develop into a plus RT, but he's still a question mark Horst is the best LT we've had since Conklin, full stop. I still want to add a tackle via the portal, but at least we have 2 viable starters now.

Blake Bueter is returning, so is Matt Carrick. Samac I thought was better than Allen at center, and DuPlain was our 2nd best O Lineman to Horst. Really hope someone like Brandon Baldwin is ready to get some snaps, he was getting some buzz in bowl practice for being close, and at 6-7, 320 lbs he has the size. Without Walker running behind it the O Line will need to be improved, and that remains to be seen if it will be, but Horst coming back gives it a fighting chance.

 

[Spartanmack]

Hutchinson had 3 tackles and 1 sack that came on the other side when he was unblocked. Ojabo had 4 tackles, 2 sacks both against Campbell. They both did noting against Horst. And both of Horst's holding penalties were dubious, especially the first one where he was simply finishing a block away from the play.

Nailor was a solid #2 WR and had 1 monster game vs Rutgers. It was mentioned he led the team in drops on a broadcast, but I didn't see the official stat, but I also think it was obvious he had at least triple the drops of Reed or anyone else for that matter, he had 3 drops in the bowl game, and drops were a problem for him early in the season.

WR is pretty deep, Reed is a good #1 poised to build off his 1,000 yard. Mosley simply catches everything near him, he's got great hands, but I think he lacks the speed to take the top off from the defense. Foster is developing nice. Coleman is a freak athletically, could be the player who improves the most. And I think 1 of the freshman will have a role, Gates is really polished and looks like a Big Ten body already. Benard has a lot of talent too. But Henry is really underrated as a recruit and I think provides some electricity, he can fly.

The tackles we have on the roster who had played if Horst hadn't returned would have been Spencer Brown and no one else. Brown was a good run blocker this year and I think can develop into a plus RT, but he's still a question mark Horst is the best LT we've had since Conklin, full stop. I still want to add a tackle via the portal, but at least we have 2 viable starters now.

Blake Bueter is returning, so is Matt Carrick. Samac I thought was better than Allen at center, and DuPlain was our 2nd best O Lineman to Horst. Really hope someone like Brandon Baldwin is ready to get some snaps, he was getting some buzz in bowl practice for being close, and at 6-7, 320 lbs he has the size. Without Walker running behind it the O Line will need to be improved, and that remains to be seen if it will be, but Horst coming back gives it a fighting chance.

We haven't seen the stat because it doesn't exist - there isn't an official stat for drops by college wide receivers, at least not one I can find. Maybe the premium stat services track it.

I'd have to rewatch the game but I don't think you could pin 3 drops in the bowl game on anyone considering Thorne couldn't throw the ball into the ocean from a rowboat that day. Plus Nailor had some unbelievable catches and played great in that game. Even if drops were tracked, I'd be surprised if they were a big problem and to say Nailor probably had 3 for every 1 by other receivers is simply conjecture (it's also most likely not true). Drops weren't a problem but that's not the case for penalties where we were 98th in the country and 14th in the B1G - obviously that's not all on Horst but he's a top offender and that deserves consideration when evaluating his contributions.

It's kind of a weird comparison given they play much different positions, but I think losing Nailor is a bigger deal than a lot of people seem to think - the advantage of having two deep threats is huge, particularly given we have no idea what our running game will look like, not to mention Thorne's limitations. And it was rather refreshing to have 2 after not having any for what seemed like an eternity. Even if Horst ends up being all conference, I think losing Nailor will have more impact that people think - most will point to the loss of Walker which is of course the biggest loss on either side of the ball.

 

[gotime909]

This team is much better with both Horst and Nailor on it. Horst had some frustrating penalties, but was clearly our best LT. Him coming back is big. I like Nailor alot, but Reed is on another level as wr. Plus WR is actually a position we've brought decent recruits in. For some reason OT isn't.

 

[Spartanmack]

This team is much better with both Horst and Nailor on it. Horst had some frustrating penalties, but was clearly our best LT. Him coming back is big. I like Nailor alot, but Reed is on another level as wr. Plus WR is actually a position we've brought decent recruits in. For some reason OT isn't.

I'm happy to have Horst back, that's not the argument. I just think losing Nailor is big and I didn't understand why some liked the idea of losing him.

As for the comparison, I think Nailor and Reed are basically at the same level - both are elite college receivers. Maybe you could say Reed is slightly better but their stats don't bare it out - they're pretty even especially considering Thorne's familiarity with Reed. Who knows if that has a meaningful impact on Nailor or not but I have little doubt that the offense was better and both receivers were more productive when defenses had to worry about both of them.

Obviously none of this is going to convince Nailor to stay so it will be interesting to see how impactful younger receivers are. I hope this freshman QB either really pushes Thorne or takes his spot this year - we need better than a serviceable D1 QB to compete in our division. I don't know why, but I think it would be harder to push Thorne aside as a senior if he doesn't do it this year - Johnson may be too entrenched w/ him at that point.

 

[johnny2x2x]

I'm happy to have Horst back, that's not the argument. I just think losing Nailor is big and I didn't understand why some liked the idea of losing him.

As for the comparison, I think Nailor and Reed are basically at the same level - both are elite college receivers. Maybe you could say Reed is slightly better but their stats don't bare it out - they're pretty even especially considering Thorne's familiarity with Reed. Who knows if that has a meaningful impact on Nailor or not but I have little doubt that the offense was better and both receivers were more productive when defenses had to worry about both of them.

Obviously none of this is going to convince Nailor to stay so it will be interesting to see how impactful younger receivers are. I hope this freshman QB either really pushes Thorne or takes his spot this year - we need better than a serviceable D1 QB to compete in our division. I don't know why, but I think it would be harder to push Thorne aside as a senior if he doesn't do it this year - Johnson may be too entrenched w/ him at that point.

No one is happy Nailor is leaving, but getting both Reed and Horst back is huge for the offense. Nailor turned into a good #2 WR when he's been healthy, but he's not the athlete Reed is and he doesn't have as good of hands. Reed is also an All Big Ten kick/punt returner. Everyone thought Reed would leave and Nailor would return, it was a pleasant surprise it was the opposite.

What I think played into that is that Nailor has battled injuries and is more filled out than Reed is. Reed played at 167 lbs in 2020, the off season did him a ton of good and he was a solid 185 lbs in 2021, I think Reed is still filling out his frame and will be a faster and more explosive 190 lbs in 2022. Reed's a guy that can move from 5th or 6th round pick to 2nd or 3rd round pick with a monster senior season. Nailor is a 5th+ or an UFA in this Spring's draft.

I think Maliq Carr is one to really watch coming up too, he's a mismatch at TE in the passing game the likes of we havent had here in a long time.

 

[Spartanmack]

No one is happy Nailor is leaving, but getting both Reed and Horst back is huge for the offense. Nailor turned into a good #2 WR when he's been healthy, but he's not the athlete Reed is and he doesn't have as good of hands. Reed is also an All Big Ten kick/punt returner. Everyone thought Reed would leave and Nailor would return, it was a pleasant surprise it was the opposite.

What I think played into that is that Nailor has battled injuries and is more filled out than Reed is. Reed played at 167 lbs in 2020, the off season did him a ton of good and he was a solid 185 lbs in 2021, I think Reed is still filling out his frame and will be a faster and more explosive 190 lbs in 2022. Reed's a guy that can move from 5th or 6th round pick to 2nd or 3rd round pick with a monster senior season. Nailor is a 5th+ or an UFA in this Spring's draft.

I think Maliq Carr is one to really watch coming up too, he's a mismatch at TE in the passing game the likes of we havent had here in a long time.

maybe I misread what you were saying but it seems pretty clear sbee thinks it's good news...

Thought this would be reversed, but this is excellent. Reed is a 1,000 yard receiver who will be an All American candidate next season. Great news.

early buzz I heard was Nailor gone, Reed and Henderson back, hopefully all true

which was why asked if he was maybe a bad teammate (a la Chris Allen) or something because based on his development and performance this year, losing him stinks particularly with a big questions mark at tailback...

I certainly don't agree that Reed is a much better athlete - and not because Reed isn't a great athlete, I think Nailor is a much better athlete than he's being given credit for. He's fast, has great hands, makes adjustments and great athletic plays on bad throws and he's good after the catch with the ball in his hands - and he's a decent blocking WR (doesn't give up on plays he's not involved in). As the number 2 guy, he has nearly identical stats to Reed. You said yourself they're both 5th or 6th round which probably makes them very even with Reed being a year younger of course. I'd like to see them both stay and help themselves in the 23 draft.

I agree with you on Carr - I'm excited to see a more natural tight end get more attention. I wish they would have made Heyward a full back and used Carr more in the passing game. Not that Heyward was a bad tight end, just that he doesn't have a tight end body and with only a year left, he should have been used to clear out LBs and safeties for Walker more and Carr given more opportunity to develop in the pass game.

 

[Sbee]

maybe I misread what you were saying but it seems pretty clear sbee thinks it's good news...





which was why asked if he was maybe a bad teammate (a la Chris Allen) or something because based on his development and performance this year, losing him stinks particularly with a big questions mark at tailback...

I certainly don't agree that Reed is a much better athlete - and not because Reed isn't a great athlete, I think Nailor is a much better athlete than he's being given credit for. He's fast, has great hands, makes adjustments and great athletic plays on bad throws and he's good after the catch with the ball in his hands - and he's a decent blocking WR (doesn't give up on plays he's not involved in). As the number 2 guy, he has nearly identical stats to Reed. You said yourself they're both 5th or 6th round which probably makes them very even with Reed being a year younger of course. I'd like to see them both stay and help themselves in the 23 draft.

I agree with you on Carr - I'm excited to see a more natural tight end get more attention. I wish they would have made Heyward a full back and used Carr more in the passing game. Not that Heyward was a bad tight end, just that he doesn't have a tight end body and with only a year left, he should have been used to clear out LBs and safeties for Walker more and Carr given more opportunity to develop in the pass game.

I'm not saying I'm happy Nailor is gone, when I said that, 2 of those three things had already happened so I was hoping for the 3rd which was X coming back. Ronald Williams announced he's coming back too.

Not sure what's up with Horst, he looked disinterested in the peach bowl and seemed like he was pouting the whole time. I'll be surprised if he suits up. You can cite mental health reasons but he walked away from his team right after the biggest win of the year, leaving us shorthanded against Purdue. Not saying we win with him but missing your starting LT is a big deal, it meant we had to shuffle the entire line and ended up losing the game. I hope he comes back engaged and buys in, but I'll believe it when I see it.