Game 102 Tigers vs. angles July 27, 2014

[Thumb]

Trading for relievers is really paying off huge.

 

[spockmaster]

I wish the offense wasnt so fucking inconsistent. they may be the best ranked offense in most categories, but theyre so up and down we just have to hope that the "up" offense shows up in the postseason (based on prior seasons, it probably fucking wont.)

 

[gotime909]

I wish the offense wasnt so fucking inconsistent. they may be the best ranked offense in most categories, but theyre so up and down we just have to hope that the "up" offense shows up in the postseason (based on prior seasons, it probably fucking wont.)

Oakland leads the league in runs.

Games scoring 1 run or less

Oakland-14
Detroit-13

Games scoring 4 runs or less

Oakland-58
Detroit-57

Games scoring 9 or more

Oakland-20
Detroit-13

Games scoring 5-8 runs

Oakland-25
Detroit-31

 

[lonesometiger]

Detroit 4-7 is a more important stat!

 

[gotime909]

Detroit 4-7 is a more important stat!

5 games up is the only stat I care about

 

[tigermud]

I just hate seeing them struggle againts ave pitchers, well struggle might be mild

2 total runs in 3 games off Skaggs,,shoemaker and Hector I mean seriously it's just completely stupid and shouldn't happen. Jmo

Yeah yeah I know it's baseball sometimes shit happens, that still doesn't make it acceptable, you the detroit &&$&in tigers man you don't let shit own you like that! Drew and rick pitched well enough to win and you let em down not getting your job done, now go get your focus back and go knock the shit out of the suxs!

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Ummm...of those that have at least 2,000 Innings playing CF during 2010-2013 (28 total), Austin is 11th.

I was only using qualifying numbers. 2,000 is not enough to qualify for all of the seasons being used. But if it is a good sample size for you then he is ranked 11th in your world.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

I just hate seeing them struggle againts ave pitchers, well struggle might be mild

2 total runs in 3 games off Skaggs,,shoemaker and Hector I mean seriously it's just completely stupid and shouldn't happen. Jmo

Yeah yeah I know it's baseball sometimes shit happens, that still doesn't make it acceptable, you the detroit &&$&in tigers man you don't let shit own you like that! Drew and rick pitched well enough to win and you let em down not getting your job done, now go get your focus back and go knock the shit out of the suxs!

Their fans are wondering how they barely won at home after getting shut down by Drew and Rick. "Those guys aren't that good." is how they feel.

 

[Rebbiv]

I was only using qualifying numbers. 2,000 is not enough to qualify for all of the seasons being used. But if it is a good sample size for you then he is ranked 11th in your world.

OK..here we go.

Your "Qualifying" list includes exactly 14 players, with Austin being 4th. Choo at 1333 Innings is one of those players.

Your list excludes #2 Carlos Gomez (3317), #3 Ellsbury (3262), #1 Bourjos (2635), #9 Marlon Byrd (2628), #6 Andres Torres (2502) and #10 Franklin Gutierrez (2494). And those are just the innings they played CF.

Gold Gloves during 2010-2013 = Gutierrez x1, Ellsbury x1, Gomez x1

You sure you want to use a Qualifying list that includes Choo at 1333 Innings, but excludes Ellsbury?

1500 Innings = Jackson 12th of 34

2000 Innings = Jackson 11th of 28

2500 Innings = Jackson 9th of 22

3000 Innings = Jackson 6th of 19 (Gomez and Ellsbury top the list)

3500 Innings = Jackson 4th of 14 (Crisp is here instead of Choo)

4000 Innings = Jackson 3rd of 10

4500 Innings = Jackson 2nd of 5


So why did I use 2,000 Innings? Because it got the number closer to 30. As in 30 MLB teams.

Just because a player was injured for most of one year, doesn't mean he shouldn't be part of the "list".

 

[kalinecountry]

http://beck.mlblogs.com/2014/07/27/ausmus-on-cabrera-everything-isnt-in-sync/
Ausmus on Cabrera: ?Everything isn?t in sync?.
JasonBeck

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

It's cool man. I went to Fangraphs and used their metric for that span of time.

You have different numbers and they tell you something else.

The list I used are the guys who were out in CF just about everyday for their club. Durability is a key metric for a player to me.

If a guy missed a season in that period, yes I want to take him out of the equation for the purpose of this conversation, because it means we weren't talking about Ellsbury winning the GG the year he was out. There is a reason I post the stats as I do just as there is a reason you do.

What I was illustrating was of the CF'ers that were up for consideration every year from 2010 - 2013 Ajax had some comparable numbers.

Good logic on why you used 2,000 Innings. I got no beef with it but the context of the conversation was Austin Jackson being mentioned as a potential after 2012. I never advocated that he should win because there has been one or two guys better every year than him. I do think he was one of the top 3 in the AL in 2011 and 2012 as the numbers indicate.

2011 4th in MLB behind only Ellsbury in the AL (A better CF than Jackson)
2012 5th in MLB behind NO ONE in the AL

Those are for qualified players in those individual seasons and I think they illustrate a player who was worthy of being a nominee.

2013 was the plummet with a -4.5 UZR/150

But in all fairness - Austin Jackson was a nominee in 2012 so it was the MLB managers who were talking about him being one of the best defensive CF'ers. But what do they know? They don't even post here.

 

[Rebbiv]

http://beck.mlblogs.com/2014/07/27/ausmus-on-cabrera-everything-isnt-in-sync/
Ausmus on Cabrera: ?Everything isn?t in sync?.
JasonBeck

Enough already.

The lack of consistent offense has to do with patience and drawing walks/taking pitches.

For the month of July, DET average 17.6 PA/BB. Take out Cabrera, both catchers and the pitchers that batted this month, the rest has a 21.8 PA/BB. For the year, DET is 15.2 PA/BB. The AL average is 13.3 PA/BB.


10 Stolen Bases and 6 Caught Stealing isn't helping. Nor the 16 Grounded Into Double Plays.

Speed was suppose to help this team. But there is no evidence he has, except diminish the OBP/ability to draw walks.

 

[Rebbiv]

It's cool man. I went to Fangraphs and used their metric for that span of time.

You have different numbers and they tell you something else.

The list I used are the guys who were out in CF just about everyday for their club. Durability is a key metric for a player to me.

If a guy missed a season in that period, yes I want to take him out of the equation for the purpose of this conversation, because it means we weren't talking about Ellsbury winning the GG the year he was out. There is a reason I post the stats as I do just as there is a reason you do.

What I was illustrating was of the CF'ers that were up for consideration every year from 2010 - 2013 Ajax had some comparable numbers.

Good logic on why you used 2,000 Innings. I got no beef with it but the context of the conversation was Austin Jackson being mentioned as a potential after 2012. I never advocated that he should win because there has been one or two guys better every year than him. I do think he was one of the top 3 in the AL in 2011 and 2012 as the numbers indicate.

2011 4th in MLB behind only Ellsbury in the AL (A better CF than Jackson)
2012 5th in MLB behind NO ONE in the AL

Those are for qualified players in those individual seasons and I think they illustrate a player who was worthy of being a nominee.

2013 was the plummet with a -4.5 UZR/150

But in all fairness - Austin Jackson was a nominee in 2012 so it was the MLB managers who were talking about him being one of the best defensive CF'ers. But what do they know? They don't even post here.

A barb, no?

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Enough already.

The lack of consistent offense has to do with patience and drawing walks/taking pitches.

For the month of July, DET average 17.6 PA/BB. Take out Cabrera, both catchers and the pitchers that batted this month, the rest has a 21.8 PA/BB. For the year, DET is 15.2 PA/BB. The AL average is 13.3 PA/BB.


10 Stolen Bases and 6 Caught Stealing isn't helping. Nor the 16 Grounded Into Double Plays.

Speed was suppose to help this team. But there is no evidence he has, except diminish the OBP/ability to draw walks.

We are in agreement here. I have been unimpressed with the Tigers running game all season. That's the biggest lie Impemba and Allen have been selling.

Tigers 27th in MLB in BsR with a -7.3 (MLB leader Nationals at 8.2)

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

A barb, no?

No. Only if you take it as such. It is a fact that MLB managers don't post here. I wish they would.

Your initial comment was a barb to anyone who considered Austin Jackson a Gold Glove potential in the past, was it not? I didn't take offense but I think I presented numbers that illustrate those of us who said it weren't insane (at least that's not proof of it).

It's all in good fun. We threw some numbers on the wall and it's whatever. We are both in agreement that his GG days in CF are over. With his decline he likely won't improve with a move to LF at this point. Which is where I figured he would go to get his trophy.

I had this "discussion" with a work friend of mine in 2012. He's one of those guys who hated Ajax because he doesn't dive to make catches. Oh the fun we would have going round and round on Ajax's fielding. Middle of last season I told him "That conversation is over now - he's not top 10 anymore."

 

[UMRules06]

So....with this mindset....a playoff series could be one of those mini-slumps.

Yes, but what can you or I do about that? The 1927 Yankees I'm sure had offensive slumps as well. I'm not going to worry about something that is most assuredly going to happen anyway.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Trading for relievers is really paying off huge.

Do you mean for the Angels? Couldn't agree more. Street was as advertised this season and moving Joe Smith to the 8th makes them a formidable late inning team.

 

[Rebbiv]

It's cool man. I went to Fangraphs and used their metric for that span of time.

You have different numbers and they tell you something else.

The list I used are the guys who were out in CF just about everyday for their club. Durability is a key metric for a player to me.

If a guy missed a season in that period, yes I want to take him out of the equation for the purpose of this conversation, because it means we weren't talking about Ellsbury winning the GG the year he was out. There is a reason I post the stats as I do just as there is a reason you do.

What I was illustrating was of the CF'ers that were up for consideration every year from 2010 - 2013 Ajax had some comparable numbers.

Good logic on why you used 2,000 Innings. I got no beef with it but the context of the conversation was Austin Jackson being mentioned as a potential after 2012. I never advocated that he should win because there has been one or two guys better every year than him. I do think he was one of the top 3 in the AL in 2011 and 2012 as the numbers indicate.

2011 4th in MLB behind only Ellsbury in the AL (A better CF than Jackson)
2012 5th in MLB behind NO ONE in the AL

Those are for qualified players in those individual seasons and I think they illustrate a player who was worthy of being a nominee.

2013 was the plummet with a -4.5 UZR/150

But in all fairness - Austin Jackson was a nominee in 2012 so it was the MLB managers who were talking about him being one of the best defensive CF'ers. But what do they know? They don't even post here.

Span was ahead of him in 2012.

Again, this is chasing a squirrel around a tree for the sake of the chase. A separate Gold Glove is not earmarked for a CFer. It is earmarked for 3 outfielders, regardless of which.

Top 10 AL OFers based on UZR/150

2010
1. Gardner 31.5
2. Crawford 20.3 (GG)
3. Hamilton 14.7
4. Suzuki 13.4 (GG)
5. Pierre 12.5
6. Borbon 10.1
7. Granderson 9.0
8. Span 7.1
9. Jackson 5.8
10. Choo 5.5

16. T. Hunter -3.0
28. R. Davis -11.6

2011
1. Gardner 30.3
2. Ellsbury 16.1 (GG)
3. Revere 14.4
4. Gordon 11.6 (GG)
5. DeJesus 10.0
6. Swisher 8.8
7. Jackson 7.9
8. Bourjos 7.6
9. Hamilton 7.5
10. V. Wells 5.2

15. T. Hunter -1.1

2012
1. Reddick 18.7 (GG)
2. Revere 16.8
3. Jennings 16.4
4. T. Hunter 14.0
5. Suzuki 13.2
6. Trout 13.0
7. Gordon 12.1 (GG)
8. D. Murphy 10.5
9. Span 8.7
10. C. Ross 4.8

12. Jackson 4.0
23. R. Davis -8.0


2013
1. Victorino 30.4 (GG)
2. Cain 29.2
3. Reddick 22.3
4. D. Murphy 15.4
5. Rasmus 15.2
6. Suzuki 14.7
7. Dirks 13.3
8. Ellsbury 12.9
9. L. Martin 11.2
10. Cespedes 9.9

23. Jackson -4.5
25. T. Hunter -5.1

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Span was ahead of him in 2012.

Again, this is chasing a squirrel around a tree for the sake of the chase. A separate Gold Glove is not earmarked for a CFer. It is earmarked for 3 outfielders, regardless of which.

You're right on Span. My bad. I thought it was Mil not Min.

Since 2011 the gold glove has gone by outfield position. That is why I have been breaking it down like that. Sorry for the confusion.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/31868304

"Instead of awarding a Gold Glove to three outfielders regardless of specific position, outfielders will now be broken down by which outfield spot a player plays in. That means a left fielder, center fielder and right fielder will all win the award, with candidates limited to those who play a specific amount of games at said position."

 

[Rebbiv]

You're right on Span. My bad. I thought it was Mil not Min.

Since 2011 the gold glove has gone by outfield position. That is why I have been breaking it down like that. Sorry for the confusion.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/31868304

"Instead of awarding a Gold Glove to three outfielders regardless of specific position, outfielders will now be broken down by which outfield spot a player plays in. That means a left fielder, center fielder and right fielder will all win the award, with candidates limited to those who play a specific amount of games at said position."

OK...how do you mitigate an outfielder like Trout in 2012 when he split time in CF and LF and is clearly a better defensive CFer than Jackson?