Final Big Ten East Power Rankings

[tinselwolverine]

get a netflix account and limit your movie watching to the output of true auteurs like I do... Bergman, Fellini, Antonioni, Kurosawa, Truffaut, Coppola, Scorsese ...

90% of what you watch should be written or directed (ideally both) by an Italian or Italian-American. The remainder by Frenchmen, Swedes, or Japanese. If it is not this way you're wasting your time. Very few exceptions to this rule exist.

I do like Edgar Bergman and Charlie McCarthy from time to time.

I think neither was Italian.

Although Charlie McCarthy did have a lot in common with Pinocchio.

EDIT: Here's Bergman and McCarthy with a famous Italian American from the film business.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac49_ueJRgc

 

[Sbee]

Honestly what is the point of this? You think either side is going to give the other what they want? Both teams had great seasons for what the expectations were. End of story. I don't need the other fanbase to confirm what I already know.

There's not a lot I haven't acknowledged about Michigan's season. If both arguments were equivalent I'd be here talking about how you shouldn't have even been in the citrus bowl because you got a good break against MN and should have been facing TN in the outback bowl. That would be me taking the Dubbsco route though, not going there.

 

[UMRules06]

So Dubbsco isn't going to give you what you want. Is that really unexpected or bothersome to you? *Shrugs* I don't get it I suppose.

There are far worse "trolls" out there than yourself who would do exactly what you just talked about. Try to diminish Michigan's season and give no credit to any sort of accomplishments. Those people are not worth responding to because they are full of crap.

 

[dubbsco]

Yeah, that's the part you aren't getting Sbee. Please go back and read my posts. I have been consistent with saying you guys had a great season and be proud. But it's silly to deny that past the injuries, you guys had some darn good fortune. And I don't understand your fixation with trying to convince me otherwise.

 

[Sbee]

Yeah, that's the part you aren't getting Sbee. Please go back and read my posts. I have been consistent with saying you guys had a great season and be proud. But it's silly to deny that past the injuries, you guys had some darn good fortune. And I don't understand your fixation with trying to convince me otherwise.

I don't see your fixation with trying to say that our season was lucky, well, actually I do understand why you say that.

 

[Sbee]

So Dubbsco isn't going to give you what you want. Is that really unexpected or bothersome to you? *Shrugs* I don't get it I suppose.

There are far worse "trolls" out there than yourself who would do exactly what you just talked about. Try to diminish Michigan's season and give no credit to any sort of accomplishments. Those people are not worth responding to because they are full of crap.

I know it's convenient for some to say that I'm your run of the mill Michigan hater, it's true I don't like Michigan but I try to be objective. I think Michigan handily beat all of the teams they should have beaten, more than I expected from them. I had them for 7 or 8 wins with BYU being the deciding factor, I figured you would drop one game against a team you should beat and then lose to Utah, MSU, OSU. The team played a lot better under Harbaugh but a lot of that had to do with a more experienced Oline and Ruddock. the 2014 UM team wasn't far off really, that team had to start a true freshmen LT, lost peppers early on, but the big reason this team was better was the turnover margin, they were maybe the worst team in the country with DG. Going forward they should be solid but there's still a hill to climb, they haven't gotten there, Michigan is a program on the rise but MSU and OSU are not on the decline and wins are a zero sum game.

 

[Gulo Blue]

In a close game, there are a number of factors that decide the outcome. Is that some complex theory that you can't comprehend? these factors can include game plan, execution. injuries, officiating, bounces, etc. a flip of any one of those factors can change the outcome. It's stupid to look at one and say that it was the only reason, regardless of the point in time in which they occur.

The popular theme that dubbsco keeps repeating is that MSU benefitted from good breaks while ignoring the bad ones that went against us.

No, I get it. I wasn't arguing for or against that approach. I just think you're blinded as hell by bias and can't see that you do the stuff you complain about. When you make excuses and then turn around and say it's not the only reason the game went that way- it's nuance. But if Michigan fans do the same thing, you think you need to call them out.

And why are you singling out dubbsco? Everyone but you thinks MSU was overall lucky.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Honestly what is the point of this? You think either side is going to give the other what they want? Both teams had great seasons for what the expectations were. End of story. I don't need the other fanbase to confirm what I already know.

Agreed. Don't go looking to rival fans postings for validation. I know I'm biased and most things go both ways, but I do think you have more Spartans making this mistake than the other way around.

 

[dubbsco]

That's the glaring difference here. We don't have many people on this forum going to the MSU side. But we have our resident MSU homer on every thread sticking up for his boys as though he's a paid social media intern.

 

[Sbee]

No, I get it. I wasn't arguing for or against that approach. I just think you're blinded as hell by bias and can't see that you do the stuff you complain about. When you make excuses and then turn around and say it's not the only reason the game went that way- it's nuance. But if Michigan fans do the same thing, you think you need to call them out.

And why are you singling out dubbsco? Everyone but you thinks MSU was overall lucky.

Every Michigan fan? maybe, MSU fans, no, but they know the whole story of the season. of course us fans have our biases towards our team and give the benefit of the doubt but we know the whole story.


Dubbsco brings up the rutgers game where the QB spikes the ball on 4th down, yes, that in and of itself is a lucky break. I doubt that he remembers the entire situation though. the QB spiked the ball on the 49 yard line with 3 seconds left in the game. they would have had to have hurried to the line, gotten lined up within 3 seconds and then completed a 50 yard bomb with no time left and then won in OT (we were up 7). We were also without 10 or 11 starters in the end of that game due to injury, that included 3 DB's and 4 OL. Overall I'd say the bad luck allowed the game to be close.

He brings up Oregon, yes Adams threw a pass to a wide open WR. I also remember that our best corner for the first game and a half suffered a fractured neck in that game and the only reason that other corner was in the game was due to the injury.

There's more than meets the eye when it comes to his assessments. if you follow the team closely you know these things, if you're a casual observer it's easy to pinpoint one play and say it was lucky.

 

[Sbee]

That's the glaring difference here. We don't have many people on this forum going to the MSU side. But we have our resident MSU homer on every thread sticking up for his boys as though he's a paid social media intern.

of course this is a largely UM community, there's little action on the MSU board and if I never posted there it would be pretty much non existent. I would venture to bet if it was a lively MSU board with a lot of Michigan related topics you guys would engage in the back and forth, not all of you but I'm sure a lot of you would. I wouldn't fault you for doing it either.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Every Michigan fan?

No. Not just Michigan. Everybody. (Caveats about speaking in absolute obviously not being literal apply.) MSU being lucky isn't a Michigan thing. It's an everyone thing. Of course Michigan fans are going to think it's a bigger deal that the rest of the country, but it's not just us.

 

[Sbee]

No. Not just Michigan. Everybody. (Caveats about speaking in absolute obviously not being literal apply.) MSU being lucky isn't a Michigan thing. It's an everyone thing. Of course Michigan fans are going to think it's a bigger deal that the rest of the country, but it's not just us.

to the untrained eye that may be apparent. Maybe that's why you just quoted a very small portion of my response to you, since I gave some examples of why that's the case

 

[Gulo Blue]

Nate Silver's blog isn't a Michigan thing.

More Not-Michigan things:

Is Michigan State lucky or clutch? Bama in the Playoff is the ultimate test

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...74/michigan-state-alabama-cotton-bowl-playoff

Michigan State is 7-0 and ranked No. 4 and very much able to achieve all of its goals.

Lucky? Sure.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...sh-blake-oneill-jalen-watts-jackson/74154606/


I don't think dubbsco wrote those.

 

[dubbsco]

No shame in getting some lucky breaks in a season where you dealt with injuries. Just don't understand the vehement defending that it didn't happen and MSU won with zero luck.

 

[Gulo Blue]

to the untrained eye that may be apparent. Maybe that's why you just quoted a very small portion of my response to you, since I gave some examples of why that's the case

I quoted the question I was responding to. It wrecks the flow to have a question, then a paragraph, then the answer to that question.

Besides, a detailed discussion of what happened doesn't impact my assertion about that opinion being held outside of Michigan fandom. You could convince me that MSU wasn't lucky, and that wouldn't change what I think other people are saying about them.

 

[gobluebigjon]

I can't believe this thread has gone this long. It really should be easy to look at michchamp's rankings and just agree. What is there to discuss?

 

[Sbee]

Nate Silver's blog isn't a Michigan thing.

More Not-Michigan things:



http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...74/michigan-state-alabama-cotton-bowl-playoff


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...sh-blake-oneill-jalen-watts-jackson/74154606/


I don't think dubbsco wrote those.

if you're just looking at numbers i'd agree with you, winning a ton of close games isn't sustainable, you can't play tight games all the time and come out ahead more than 50% of the time with all things being equal. My point is that those numbers are thrown off due to MSU's injuries, we went through a stretch from the CMU game until Nebraska where we were playing with a skeleton crew, with major injuries to Ed Davis, Vayante Copeland, Jack Conklin, Kodi Kieler, Dennis Finley, LJ Scott, Macgarret Kings, Madre London, Josiah Price, Jack Allen, RJ Williamson, Darian Hicks, and then Connor Cook for the most important game of the year, just to top it all off. I'm not including special teams players or guys who played sparingly, we lost a few other guys on the two deep that weren't starters, not worried about them. Finley wasn't a starter but he was replacing a starter so his injury forced us even further down the depth chart.

These injuries made a number of games (CMU, Purdue, Rutgers, Michigan, Indiana, Nebraska) closer than they should be. The results of those games skew the computer models that you cite.

If you want to argue that MSU was lucky with the injury bug in 2013 and 2014 I'll agree with you, I also think we made up for it in spades this year.

 

[Gulo Blue]

No shame in getting some lucky breaks in a season where you dealt with injuries. Just don't understand the vehement defending that it didn't happen and MSU won with zero luck.

I think it's fair to compare our behavior in 2011. We were lucky and we knew it and admitted it. But that's how it seemed on our board. I wonder if there were Michigan posters on Spartan or Buckeye boards trying to argue that we weren't lucky?

Edit: We were lucky, we knew it, but we were still happy and didn't care that everyone knew we were lucky.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I can't believe this thread has gone this long. It really should be easy to look at michchamp's rankings and just agree. What is there to discuss?

Good point. Those rankings are pretty spot on.