hellifino said:

best catcher in baseball at framing pitches, lol show me the statements that others have said he is one of the best, not some half assed stats. what difference does JVs strikeout ratio have to do with Avila framing pitches, maybe it's because Verlander is a MVP an Cy Young winner. but lets give lazy **** with a .200 B.A. the credit for it. your facts ain't facts, it's your account, not others.

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Learn to read.

I said one of the best, not the best.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15093

You can also scroll down to see video evidence of Avila's framing ability resulting in JV getting a couple generous strike calls on pitches out of the zone with Avila doing a terrific frame job in this link:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=20459

Being good at framing pitchers increases a pitchers strikeout rate and saves runs, that is not only common sense, but shows up in statistics.

You're an idiot, I never once said give Avila credit for Verlanders success. Try sticking to the argument rather than making up your own.

mjsb2 said:

Learn to read.

I said one of the best, not the best.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15093

You can also scroll down to see video evidence of Avila's framing ability resulting in JV getting a couple generous strike calls on pitches out of the zone with Avila doing a terrific frame job in this link:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=20459

Being good at framing pitchers increases a pitchers strikeout rate and saves runs, that is not only common sense, but shows up in statistics.

You're an idiot, I never once said give Avila credit for Verlanders success. Try sticking to the argument rather than making up your own.

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1st off, that report is from 2 years ago, back when he was a better catcher, but surely not one of the best.

and when they finally get rid of Avila, no one will want him, except maybe as a backup catcher somewhere.

hellifino said:

1st off, that report is from 2 years ago, back when he was a better catcher, but surely not one of the best.

and when they finally get rid of Avila, no one will want him, except maybe as a backup catcher somewhere.

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Right, and this is based on what?

What has happened in the past two years that made Avila go from one of the best catches at framing pitches to one of the worst?

You never back anything you say up with any type of statistic, just say a bunch of random shit, most of the time with no factual evidence to back it up.

mjsb2 said:

Right, and this is based on what?

What has happened in the past two years that made Avila go from one of the best catches at framing pitches to one of the worst?

You never back anything you say up with any type of statistic, just say a bunch of random shit, most of the time with no factual evidence to back it up.

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I could care less about his framing pitches, and just get off his lazy ass and make an attempt at pass balls and show a little hustle behind the plate. and here's a stat for ya...
Avila is hitting below the mendosa line.I hope Pena gets a few more starts and hits the ball,cause nothing besides Leyland getting fired would make me happier than to see Avila benched. and why do guys like you keep backing up bad players? ain't you one of the guys on here telling me how good Sizemore and worth was.lol

and lol at Cabrera being a cleanup hitter, remember how you were saying that he wasn't a 3 hole hitter, but a 4th hitter, how's that working out for ya?

hellifino said:

I could care less about his framing pitches, and just get off his lazy ass and make an attempt at pass balls and show a little hustle behind the plate. and here's a stat for ya...
Avila is hitting below the mendosa line.I hope Pena gets a few more starts and hits the ball,cause nothing besides Leyland getting fired would make me happier than to see Avila benched. and why do guys like you keep backing up bad players? ain't you one of the guys on here telling me how good Sizemore and worth was.lol

and lol at Cabrera being a cleanup hitter, remember how you were saying that he wasn't a 3 hole hitter, but a 4th hitter, how's that working out for ya?

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You keep insisting Leyland is a terrible manager and an idiot and should be fired, yet he's taken us to two world series, two division titles, three ALCS, and a winning record since he arrived....how's that working out for you?

Thumb said:

You keep insisting Leyland is a terrible manager and an idiot and should be fired, yet he's taken us to two world series, two division titles, three ALCS, and a winning record since he arrived....how's that working out for you?

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I'd put DD more responsible for this teams success. He's brought the talent here for a championship. Of course Mike I spending helps as well. Jimmy Smokes questionable bullpen handling and LOVE for career AAAA players have drawn criticism from most on this board. Not to mention the Lamont experience and the fact he's never had a single player that could bunt, yet keeps calling for bunts.

Thumb said:

You keep insisting Leyland is a terrible manager and an idiot and should be fired, yet he's taken us to two world series, two division titles, three ALCS, and a winning record since he arrived....how's that working out for you?

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wasn't there talk last year, that if we didn't make the playoffs, that he was gone? what is DD suppose to do, fire the guy for getting us in the World Series,that ain't gonna happen! you'd have to be a damn fool to quit managing this team with the lineup we have.

gotime909 said:

I'd put DD more responsible for this teams success. He's brought the talent here for a championship. Of course Mike I spending helps as well. Jimmy Smokes questionable bullpen handling and LOVE for career AAAA players have drawn criticism from most on this board. Not to mention the Lamont experience and the fact he's never had a single player that could bunt, yet keeps calling for bunts.

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The same guy you give credit to for building this team is the same guy who put those AAAA players on the roster. DD deserves just as much of the blame for guys like Kelly, Inge, Perry, Schlereth, and Santiago being on the roster, as Leyland does for playing them.

hellifino said:

wasn't there talk last year, that if we didn't make the playoffs, that he was gone? what is DD suppose to do, fire the guy for getting us in the World Series,that ain't gonna happen! you'd have to be a damn fool to quit managing this team with the lineup we have.

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There was always talk, and there is still talk. And none of it is worth the horseshit it smells like. If this team finished 130-32, and swept every playoff and WS game, there would still be a large amount of people who want Leylands head.

I suspect a great majority of Leyland haters actually dislike him because he replaced Trammell.

Thumb said:

The same guy you give credit to for building this team is the same guy who put those AAAA players on the roster. DD deserves just as much of the blame for guys like Kelly, Inge, Perry, Schlereth, and Santiago being on the roster, as Leyland does for playing them.

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Randy Smith period

hellifino said:

I could care less about his framing pitches, and just get off his lazy ass and make an attempt at pass balls and show a little hustle behind the plate. and here's a stat for ya...
Avila is hitting below the mendosa line.I hope Pena gets a few more starts and hits the ball,cause nothing besides Leyland getting fired would make me happier than to see Avila benched. and why do guys like you keep backing up bad players? ain't you one of the guys on here telling me how good Sizemore and worth was.lol

and lol at Cabrera being a cleanup hitter, remember how you were saying that he wasn't a 3 hole hitter, but a 4th hitter, how's that working out for ya?

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Avila has been an above average hitter, and a good hitting catcher over the course of his career. But hey, let's just ignore all that and judge him based on a sample size of 30 games.

Of the top 4 spots in the lineup, the 3rd spot is the least valuable. That is a statistically proven fact. I never said Cabrera wasn't a three hitter, I said the Tigers would maximize his value more by hitting him 4th, that still holds true. Players don't hit better or worse depending on where they hit, so not sure what you're getting at there, but you making an incoherent argument isn't really new. Also, Cabreras two best offensive seasons came while he was hitting 4th.

Scott Sizemore had a 110 wRC+ in 2011. He was a good player that year, and was a solid 2B option, better than anyone else in the Tigers system at the time.

Never once said Danny Worth was good.