Welcome to Detroit Sports Forum!

By joining our community, you'll be able to connect with fellow fans that live and breathe Detroit sports just like you!

Get Started
  • If you are no longer able to access your account since our recent switch from vBulletin to XenForo, you may need to reset your password via email. If you no longer have access to the email attached to your account, please fill out our contact form and we will assist you ASAP. Thanks for your continued support of DSF.

Kinsler = H.O.F.

stonecold2136

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2011
Messages
951
Ian is probably the best 2nd baseman we have had in Detroit in my lifetime. He is on pace for Hall oF Fame numbers at 2nd base.

It is a pleasure to watch Kinsler everyday. The guy brings it all the time. You don't see him talking to players on the other team when running the bases.

Kinsler for the Hall of Fame !!! Hell Ya!
 
Hall of Fame Monitor (Likely HoFer ~ 100)

R. Cano 123
C. Utley 93
L. Whitaker 92
D. Pedroia 80
I. Kinsler 44
P. Polanco 42

Hall of Fame Standard (Average HoFer ~ 50)

R. Cano = 43
L. Whitaker = 43
C. Utley = 32
D. Pedroia = 29
I. Kinsler = 29
P. Polanco = 26
 
Does that make him better than Omar Infante?

a5c752fe5cd0c5525d3d26c47b4477001b0cb56912374a6a1586a4b2f3408c25.jpg
 
I like Kinsler but HOF? He has 1600 hits half of Jeter's numbers. He does some nice things but nothing great and don't be swayed by his career year. He's not close. Even as 2B go.
 
I like Kinsler but HOF? He has 1600 hits half of Jeter's numbers. He does some nice things but nothing great and don't be swayed by his career year. He's not close. Even as 2B go.

I have always felt that middle infielders second basemen and shortstops need to be just above 2,500 hits to have a good chance of making the HOF. This counting numbers along with a good WAR. Our great double play combination of Trammell and Whitaker were both in the 2,300's despite WAR better than half of those at their positions voted in.
 
I can understand what your saying KC. Ian if he stays away from injury he should have no problem getting to the 2500 hit mark in 4 years.

The almighty Ryne Sandberg had 2386 hits and make it in. Took him 16 seasons to get to that mark. Retired at the age of 37

Kinsler is projecting to be at 2500 hits in 15 years of playing time. He could pass Sandberg in HR's if he averages 20 HR's a year during that time. He could also pass Ryne in Runs and RBI as well.
 
I can understand what your saying KC. Ian if he stays away from injury he should have no problem getting to the 2500 hit mark in 4 years.

The almighty Ryne Sandberg had 2386 hits and make it in. Took him 16 seasons to get to that mark. Retired at the age of 37

Kinsler is projecting to be at 2500 hits in 15 years of playing time. He could pass Sandberg in HR's if he averages 20 HR's a year during that time. He could also pass Ryne in Runs and RBI as well.

Sandberg iirc set the record for homeruns by a 2B man?

Then there's Jeff Kent with solid hitting numbers across the board but got 15% his first year of eligibility.
Makes you wonder what some of these BBWAA are thinking.
 
Sandberg iirc set the record for homeruns by a 2B man?

Then there's Jeff Kent with solid hitting numbers across the board but got 15% his first year of eligibility.
Makes you wonder what some of these BBWAA are thinking.

Kent's defense and the fact that he played in the peak of the roid age probably hurt him the most. He was an average hitter and then when he turned 30 suddenly turned into a super hitter. Looks fishy
 
Like I said, a career year. He hasn't had a 20 home run season in many years.. don't see him averaging 20 the rest of the way.,.

And you also assume he's going to hit like this as he gets older. Don't see it.. Not sure how old you are but he's not better than sweet Lou.
 
I can understand what your saying KC. Ian if he stays away from injury he should have no problem getting to the 2500 hit mark in 4 years.

The almighty Ryne Sandberg had 2386 hits and make it in. Took him 16 seasons to get to that mark. Retired at the age of 37

Kinsler is projecting to be at 2500 hits in 15 years of playing time. He could pass Sandberg in HR's if he averages 20 HR's a year during that time. He could also pass Ryne in Runs and RBI as well.

1. Kinsler never had more than 168 hits in a season prior to coming to DET. He hits 188 and 185 in back to back seasons at ages 32 and 33. He is on pace for 195 hits this year, at age 34. His 3 best hitting years will have come at ages 32-34. Talk about suspicion.

2. Kinsler had 1,518 career hits through age 33 season. He would have to average about 200 hits a season to get to 2500 through age 38 season (15 years of playing time).

3. Ryne Sandberg's career prior to his pre-mature retirement (sat out all of 1995) was far, far superior to Kinsler's. He retired at 34, was out the year he was 35 and came back for 36 and 37.

Through Age 33

Hits

R. Cano 2,104 and counting
R. Sandberg 2,080 (2,386 through 37)
L. Whitaker 1,831 (2,369 through 38)
W. Randolph 1,741 (2,210 through 37)
P. Polanco 1,681 (2,142 through 37)
I. Kinsler 1,518
B. Grich 1,427 (1,833 through 37)
J. Kent 1,409 (2,461 through 40)
C. Utley 1,275

Runs

R. Sandberg 1,143 (1,318 through 37)
L. Whitaker 1,040 (1,386 through 38)
W. Randolph 1,036 (1,239 through 37)
R. Cano 1,010 and counting
I. Kinsler 942
P. Polanco 826 (1,009 through 37)
B. Grich 792 (1,033 through 37)
C. Utley 779
J. Kent 764 (1,320 through 40)

RBIs

R. Cano 1,036 and counting
J. Kent 899 (1,522 through 40)
R. Sandberg 881 (1,061 through 37)
L. Whitaker 781 (1,084 through 38)
C. Utley 739
I. Kinsler 704
B. Grich 661 (864 through 37)
P. Polanco 579 (723 through 37)
W. Randolph 552 (687 through 37)

HRs

R. Cano 258 and counting
R. Sandberg 240 (282 through 37)
J. Kent 226 (377 through 40)
C. Utley 199
I. Kinsler 184
B. Grich 168 (224 through 37)
L. Whitaker 167 (244 through 38)
P. Polanco 90 (104 through 37)
W. Randolph 47 (54 through 37)

There are 17 MLB 2B with at least 2,250 career hits and only 3 are not in the HoF. Jeff Kent, Lou Whitaker and Julio Franco.

There are 16 MLB 2B with at least 1,250 career runs scored and 4 are not in the HoF. Jeff Kent, Lou Whitaker, Julio Franco and Tony Phillips.

There are 15 MLB 2B with at least 1,050 career RBIs and 3 are not in the HoF. Jeff Kent, Lou Whitaker and Julio Franco.

Of the top 18 MLB 2B (retired) in JAWS, Bobby Grich, Lou Whitaker, Jeff Kent and Willie Randolph are the only ones not in the HoF.

Of the top 20 MLB 2B (retired) in WAR, Bobby Grich, Lou Whitaker, Jeff Kent and Willie Randolph are the only ones not in the HoF.


Age 37-38 is about where the vast majority retire of HoF skillset and there is usually preceding regression. That regression usually comes after 32 and certainly after 36. There are a few anomalies here and there, but the basic pattern is there.

Kinsler has exceeded this pattern so far (which is good for the Tigers). But, his totals through age 33 is not as good as say Whitaker through that same age. Hoping he continues the pattern is one thing, expecting he will is another. Could he? Sure. But if he deviates from the norm too much, then speculation of PED use will ensue (see Jeff Kent).
 
Last edited:
Like I said, a career year. He hasn't had a 20 home run season in many years.. don't see him averaging 20 the rest of the way.,.

And you also assume he's going to hit like this as he gets older. Don't see it.. Not sure how old you are but he's not better than sweet Lou.


Ever since Ian has came here he has been a punching bag for cetain posters.

This is the reason I post things like this. To show these posters how silly they look attacking a fellow fan over and over. A few of us did not buy into the anti Ian Kinsler campaign that was launched on this board.

As far as you go Mitch I never see you post anything that takes much time or effort. You just automatically jump on rebs corner no matter what. How about you grow a pair, try posting something where you put your neck on the line like the rest of us.

Yes I have seen Whitaker play his entire career. The slumps, his struggles in the early days. Then the dreadful 1980 season where the only thing that kept him in the line up was his glove. Then I watched him in his glory days when everything seemed to click in the 1982 season all the way through the rest of his career.

It took Lou 19 seasons to put up his numbers and he did not get into the magical 2500 hit club at 2B.

There is an argument that Lou should be in the H.O.F. but the bottom line he isn't.

My personal opinion is Lou was really nasty to the media(hardly ever talked to them, if he did he was an asshole) and it hurt him getting enough votes to be in the Hall of Fame.

The most damaging thing in Lou's hall of fame quest the first 4 full seasons on his career.
 
Last edited:
1. Kinsler never had more than 168 hits in a season prior to coming to DET. He hits 188 and 185 in back to back seasons at ages 32 and 33. He is on pace for 195 hits this year, at age 34. His 3 best hitting years will have come at ages 32-34. Talk about suspicion.

2. Kinsler had 1,518 career hits through age 33 season. He would have to average about 200 hits a season to get to 2500 through age 38 season (15 years of playing time).

3. Ryne Sandberg's career prior to his pre-mature retirement (sat out all of 1995) was far, far superior to Kinsler's. He retired at 34, was out the year he was 35 and came back for 36 and 37.

Through Age 33

Hits

R. Cano 2,104 and counting
R. Sandberg 2,080 (2,386 through 37)
L. Whitaker 1,831 (2,369 through 38)
W. Randolph 1,741 (2,210 through 37)
P. Polanco 1,681 (2,142 through 37)
I. Kinsler 1,518
B. Grich 1,427 (1,833 through 37)
J. Kent 1,409 (2,461 through 40)
C. Utley 1,275

Runs

R. Sandberg 1,143 (1,318 through 37)
L. Whitaker 1,040 (1,386 through 38)
W. Randolph 1,036 (1,239 through 37)
R. Cano 1,010 and counting
I. Kinsler 942
P. Polanco 826 (1,009 through 37)
B. Grich 792 (1,033 through 37)
C. Utley 779
J. Kent 764 (1,320 through 40)

RBIs

R. Cano 1,036 and counting
J. Kent 899 (1,522 through 40)
R. Sandberg 881 (1,061 through 37)
L. Whitaker 781 (1,084 through 38)
C. Utley 739
I. Kinsler 704
B. Grich 661 (864 through 37)
P. Polanco 579 (723 through 37)
W. Randolph 552 (687 through 37)

HRs

R. Cano 258 and counting
R. Sandberg 240 (282 through 37)
J. Kent 226 (377 through 40)
C. Utley 199
I. Kinsler 184
B. Grich 168 (224 through 37)
L. Whitaker 167 (244 through 38)
P. Polanco 90 (104 through 37)
W. Randolph 47 (54 through 37)

There are 17 MLB 2B with at least 2,250 career hits and only 3 are not in the HoF. Jeff Kent, Lou Whitaker and Julio Franco.

There are 16 MLB 2B with at least 1,250 career runs scored and 4 are not in the HoF. Jeff Kent, Lou Whitaker, Julio Franco and Tony Phillips.

There are 15 MLB 2B with at least 1,050 career RBIs and 3 are not in the HoF. Jeff Kent, Lou Whitaker and Julio Franco.

Of the top 18 MLB 2B (retired) in JAWS, Bobby Grich, Lou Whitaker, Jeff Kent and Willie Randolph are the only ones not in the HoF.

Of the top 20 MLB 2B (retired) in WAR, Bobby Grich, Lou Whitaker, Jeff Kent and Willie Randolph are the only ones not in the HoF.


Age 37-38 is about where the vast majority retire of HoF skillset and there is usually preceding regression. That regression usually comes after 32 and certainly after 36. There are a few anomalies here and there, but the basic pattern is there.

Kinsler has exceeded this pattern so far (which is good for the Tigers). But, his totals through age 33 is not as good as say Whitaker through that same age. Hoping he continues the pattern is one thing, expecting he will is another. Could he? Sure. But if he deviates from the norm too much, then speculation of PED use will ensue (see Jeff Kent).

Bla , Bla , Bla - more of the same anti Ian Kinsler campaighn.

Ian was supposedly finished at the time he came to Detroit Reb. Your away numbers and him moving from Texas to Detroit was supposedly the end of him.

He proved you wrong in every aspect, your manipulative numbers did not work.

There is already blowback at you that has been surfacing the Omar Infante comparison.

I have seen other posters throwing this name at you repeadedly.

At the end of this year that's 3 years in Detroit for Kinsler for you to base your BS data on him. It doesn't matter cause he has been an excellent top tier 2B. All of us fans who watch every game on FSN know this.

PED suspicion is all you got? Ian has started pulling the ball again to left field rather than hitting the ball the opposite way a la spray chart. Therefore producing more power.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Ian Kinsler is not on PED's. That is his real talent that you refuse to accept even to this day.

Every hit, HR, RBI or spectacular catch IK makes is a big middle finger to you and the 2 others that ride on your back in the bullying campaighn that you preach

May the OMAR INFANTE COMPARISON LIVE ON !!!!

Cheers to OMAR INFANTE!!!
 
Bla , Bla , Bla - more of the same anti Ian Kinsler campaighn.

Ian was supposedly finished at the time he came to Detroit Reb. Your away numbers and him moving from Texas to Detroit was supposedly the end of him.

He proved you wrong in every aspect, your manipulative numbers did not work.

There is already blowback at you that has been surfacing the Omar Infante comparison.

I have seen other posters throwing this name at you repeadedly.

At the end of this year that's 3 years in Detroit for Kinsler for you to base your BS data on him. It doesn't matter cause he has been an excellent top tier 2B. All of us fans who watch every game on FSN know this.

PED suspicion is all you got? Ian has started pulling the ball again to left field rather than hitting the ball the opposite way a la spray chart. Therefore producing more power.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Ian Kinsler is not on PED's. That is his real talent that you refuse to accept even to this day.

Every hit, HR, RBI or spectacular catch IK makes is a big middle finger to you and the 2 others that ride on your back in the bullying campaighn that you preach

May the OMAR INFANTE COMPARISON LIVE ON !!!!

Cheers to OMAR INFANTE!!!

First and foremost, I am not a Kinsler hater. Period.

Second, I do not "manipulate" numbers. They are the player's numbers and I use the same subset. I just post the results. You don't like...got it.

I am not the only one questioning Kinsler being HoF worthy. And you neglect to address how he supposed to get 1,000 hits in 5 years when he has only amassed 850 hits the last 5 years, two of which were career highs. Players do not get better with age.

When you posted this topic....were you looking for "attaboys" from other posters....looking for a serious debate....or just baiting? Because it has to be one of these.

And why make it personal? I didn't. Maybe we should bring up Steve Lombardozzi or Billy Hamilton. Your assessment of those two has bearing on your assessment of Kinsler, right? No it doesn't. I am not going to get into the Kinsler/Infante crap.

I made a well reasoned argument as to why Kinsler shouldn't be in the Hall. You counter with attacks. You want respect, try engaging in discussion without making it personal.
 
Ever since Ian has came here he has been a punching bag for cetain posters.

This is the reason I post things like this. To show these posters how silly they look attacking a fellow fan over and over. A few of us did not buy into the anti Ian Kinsler campaign that was launched on this board.

As far as you go Mitch I never see you post anything that takes much time or effort. You just automatically jump on rebs corner no matter what. How about you grow a pair, try posting something where you put your neck on the line like the rest of us.

Yes I have seen Whitaker play his entire career. The slumps, his struggles in the early days. Then the dreadful 1980 season where the only thing that kept him in the line up was his glove. Then I watched him in his glory days when everything seemed to click in the 1982 season all the way through the rest of his career.

It took Lou 19 seasons to put up his numbers and he did not get into the magical 2500 hit club at 2B.

There is an argument that Lou should be in the H.O.F. but the bottom line he isn't.

My personal opinion is Lou was really nasty to the media(hardly ever talked to them, if he did he was an asshole) and it hurt him getting enough votes to be in the Hall of Fame.

The most damaging thing in Lou's hall of fame quest the first 4 full seasons on his career.

So the topic was a bait.
 
I don't think any here are anti-Kinsler. Just because you don't value someone's opinions doesn't mean you attack that person. Try to be civil.
 
Alan, sweet Lou, and Jack would all be in the hall if they had played in New York, Chicago, and LA.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top