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Tigers @ Blue Jays 8-30-15 Game #130

tomdalton22 said:
yes...he has been bad. Maybe he needs to be in the pen.

The starting staff is going to look pretty weak next year.

Here are the current options

JV
Sanchez
Lobstein
Farmer
Boyd
Norris

They can't go into the season with 5 of those as their starters but they can't afford to sign a really good pitcher.

I see another last place finish next year.
Click to expand...

If healthy, I don't mind Sanchez and Lobstein. Boyd should be OK for a mid-rotation guy. Fulmer should be in the mix and has more of an upside than Norris or Farmer.

They need to just put Farmer in the pen. He should flourish there and that is how you get pen help.
 
Rebbiv said:
If healthy, I don't mind Sanchez and Lobstein. Boyd should be OK for a mid-rotation guy. Fulmer should be in the mix and has more of an upside than Norris or Farmer.

They need to just put Farmer in the pen. He should flourish there and that is how you get pen help.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on Farmer. I don't know much about Fulmer.
 
jas5lf said:
Will Fulmer be ready next season? I thought he was a highly regarded prospect as part of the Cespedes trade.
Click to expand...

Fulmer should be with them next year. He is ready now, but with iirc TJ surgery 2013? they don't want to over work him now with a September callup.....but who knows.
He was voted the Eastern League AA Pitcher of the year with the mets Binghampton and the Tigers Erie.
 
STREAKS AND STATS:

The Blue Jays hit 11 home runs over the three game series.

The Tigers fell to 60-70, making themselves at home in the basement of the Central division.

Miguel Cabrera came into this series red hot, but the Blue Jays slowed him down as the big man went 1-11 with one walk and one run batted in.

Castellanos' nice game at the plate comes at the end of a solid month for the young third baseman in which he hit .264/.323/.529.

The Summer of my discontent....
 
tomdalton22 said:
yes...he has been bad. Maybe he needs to be in the pen.

The starting staff is going to look pretty weak next year.

Here are the current options

JV
Sanchez
Lobstein
Farmer
Boyd
Norris

They can't go into the season with 5 of those as their starters but they can't afford to sign a really good pitcher.

I see another last place finish next year.
Click to expand...
I would expect them to sign two starting Pitchers in the offseason. One top of the rotation starter, not a Cueto or Price though, and another vet on a short term deal.

That way you pitch Norris 5th. Have Boyd, Lobstein, and Farmer compete for the pen. Then Fulmer is the first man up out of Toledo. If they really want to make another run next year thats the way its gotta be.
 
tomdalton22 said:
yes...he has been bad. Maybe he needs to be in the pen.

The starting staff is going to look pretty weak next year.

Here are the current options

JV
Sanchez
Lobstein
Farmer
Boyd
Norris

They can't go into the season with 5 of those as their starters but they can't afford to sign a really good pitcher.

I see another last place finish next year.
Click to expand...
As long as they plan to keep the payroll high they have enough to land a couple of good arms. Could easily walk away with something like Kazmir, Buehrle, O'Day, and Clippard. Those are the main 4 I hope they go for anyway
 
swami45 said:
I would expect them to sign two starting Pitchers in the offseason. One top of the rotation starter, not a Cueto or Price though, and another vet on a short term deal.

That way you pitch Norris 5th. Have Boyd, Lobstein, and Farmer compete for the pen. Then Fulmer is the first man up out of Toledo. If they really want to make another run next year thats the way its gotta be.
Click to expand...

Not a chance. They won't go over the tax threshold, I believe. Plus, Fulmer needs to be in the rotation. Nothing left to prove in the minors. He'll be 23 in March. Limit his innings to 150-170.. Good to go.

3 options with our starters:

1:) Go big, not enough payroll to do that IMO.

2:) Go other vets who aren't the best. Then you get more Simon's and Greens.

3.) Go with your new youth and go get BP arms instead.
 
2 or 3, Tigers don't fix the bull pen, no need for starters. Games are won in the 9th inning. They need a closer that can close!
 
lonesometiger said:
2 or 3, Tigers don't fix the bull pen, no need for starters. Games are won in the 9th inning. They need a closer that can close!
Click to expand...

Caraig Kimbrel

Trevor Rosenthal

Jeurys Familia

Shawn Tolleson

Zach Britton

Drew Storen

Brad Boxberger

Cody Allen

Kenly Jansen

Aroldis Champman

Hector Rondon


Not a lot of these guys are household names. They all have at least 24 saves and under the age of 27. Most were starters in the minors.

We have the arms. We just need a manager that knows how to use them and a catcher that can frame pitches and call a good game.

I would rather spend money on a CFer, LFer, C and 3B, than spend another dime on pitching.
 
Rebbiv said:
Caraig Kimbrel

Trevor Rosenthal

Jeurys Familia

Shawn Tolleson

Zach Britton

Drew Storen

Brad Boxberger

Cody Allen

Kenly Jansen

Aroldis Champman

Hector Rondon


Not a lot of these guys are household names. They all have at least 24 saves and under the age of 27. Most were starters in the minors.

We have the arms. We just need a manager that knows how to use them and a catcher that can frame pitches and call a good game.

I would rather spend money on a CFer, LFer, C and 3B, than spend another dime on pitching.
Click to expand...

I don't know...the pitching staff has been terrible this year...and the numbers include David Price.
 
tomdalton22 said:
I don't know...the pitching staff has been terrible this year...and the numbers include David Price.
Click to expand...


How many pitchers were with DET prior to this year? How many have regressed?

Price

Verlander

Sanchez

Alburqurque

Hardy

Chamberlain

Krol

Rondon


How many of the new pitchers to DET has regressed from 2014?

Simon

Greene

Gorzelanny


There is a common theme here. Is it luck that most of them regressed? Is it the manager? Is it the pitching coach? Or is it just the starting catcher?

I don't believe in coincidences. No, not all of them are great pitchers, but most were acceptable prior to this year.

Heck, Joba Chamberlain was more effective than what Neftali Feliz or Guido Knudson have been. Phil Cok is Phil Coke, but he was better than Ian Krol.
 
Rebbiv said:
How many pitchers were with DET prior to this year? How many have regressed?

Price

Verlander

Sanchez

Alburqurque

Hardy

Chamberlain

Krol

Rondon


How many of the new pitchers to DET has regressed from 2014?

Simon

Greene

Gorzelanny


There is a common theme here. Is it luck that most of them regressed? Is it the manager? Is it the pitching coach? Or is it just the starting catcher?

I don't believe in coincidences. No, not all of them are great pitchers, but most were acceptable prior to this year.

Heck, Joba Chamberlain was more effective than what Neftali Feliz or Guido Knudson have been. Phil Cok is Phil Coke, but he was better than Ian Krol.
Click to expand...

As far as the guys that have been here...some are worse, some better and some really haven't changed much. Some are due to injury as well (getting better or worse). As far as the new guys...neither one had much of a track record for being a starter. From the games I have watched (which is a lot)...none of them seem to have any control. Maybe Jones doesn't know what he is doing as far as tweaking these new guys mechanics....maybe he doesn't know what he is doing at all!

All that said...Jones should be gone.
 
tomdalton22 said:
As far as the guys that have been here...some are worse, some better and some really haven't changed much. Some are due to injury as well (getting better or worse). As far as the new guys...neither one had much of a track record for being a starter. From the games I have watched (which is a lot)...none of them seem to have any control. Maybe Jones doesn't know what he is doing as far as tweaking these new guys mechanics....maybe he doesn't know what he is doing at all!

All that said...Jones should be gone.
Click to expand...

Which ones are better?
 
tomdalton22 said:
Price
Verlander
Soria
Hardy (whip only)
Click to expand...


I will give you Verlander and Hardy. Although Hardy absolutely has sucked with Bryan Holaday catching him. So I am not sure it is improving as much as not having Holaday catch him.


2015 Price 1.08 WHIP .637 OPP OPS .291 BABIP 2.94 FIP

2014 Price 1.08 WHIP .647 OPP OPS .308 BABIP 2.78 FIP

It is pretty hard to argue Price is better. Pretty much the same, with a tad of luck.


2015 Soria 1.07 WHIP .636 OPP OPS .236 BABIP 4.32 FIP

2014 Soria 0.99 WHIP .605 OPP OPS .293 BABIP 2.09 FIP

There is no indication that 2015 Soria is better than 2014 Soria. More luckier, yes. Better, no.
 
lonesometiger said:
2 or 3, Tigers don't fix the bull pen, no need for starters. Games are won in the 9th inning. They need a closer that can close!
Click to expand...

We had a closer this season, Soria, before we traded him. We need setup guys. You need to get to the 9th inning first..
 
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