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Tigers vs. mets 8-07-16 Game 111

Would you rather a starter go 6 innings and give up 3 runs or go 5 innings and give up 1 or less?

I rather have a starter get to 7 innings. Just more BP use, from a not so good BP.

170IP, 2.83 ERA or 230IP, 3.13 ERA. I'll take the latter.
 
you didn't answer my question.

I rather have 5-1 than 6-3? Possibly. But 8-3 over 5-0 it's not so cut and dry. Especially our BP. The thing with Pelfrey is he's not all 5-0 and 5-1. I just wish he could make into the 7th from time to time.
 
I rather have 5-1 than 6-3? Possibly. But 8-3 over 5-0 it's not so cut and dry. Especially our BP. The thing with Pelfrey is he's not all 5-0 and 5-1. I just wish he could make into the 7th from time to time.

I would rather have 5 innings and 1 or less runs every time over 6 innings with 3 runs (worst QS)

As far as Pelfrey, I too would like to see him pitch deeper into the games and be effective. He has only pitched into the 7th 3 times this year (21 starts) and only 6 or more 8 times.

All that said...if he comes back and pitches the rest of the year like he did in July, I will be more than satisfied.
 
He hasn't pitch 7 at all. At least gotten through 7.
 
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6 IP and 3 ER only happens in about 10% of all Quality Starts. And just at a quick look, we don't even know if a run or two was a result of a weak bullpen. Certainly lasting into later innings (6, 7, 8 or 9) is more important that 5 and 1. Just look at the history of starters and they don't last long as starters with those metrics. Economy of pitches is important and saving your pen is just as important.
 
6 IP and 3 ER only happens in about 10% of all Quality Starts. And just at a quick look, we don't even know if a run or two was a result of a weak bullpen. Certainly lasting into later innings (6, 7, 8 or 9) is more important that 5 and 1. Just look at the history of starters and they don't last long as starters with those metrics. Economy of pitches is important and saving your pen is just as important.

I was just pointing out that going 5 innings and giving up 1 or less runs is still a good start.
 
I was just pointing out that going 5 innings and giving up 1 or less runs is still a good start.


From an individual standpoint and once in awhile, maybe. From a team standpoint, over time, these types of starters tax the bullpen.

Average AL Starter (meaning #3) = 5.8 IP and 48% Quality Starts

IP/GS

Verlander 6.7 (6.6 career)

Fulmer 6.2 (6.2 career)

Zimmermann 6.1 (6.1 career)


Sanchez 5.3 (6.0 career)


Pelfrey 5.3 (5.7 career)

Boyd 5.0 (4.8 career)

Greene 4.4 (5.3 career)

Norris 4.0 (4.4 career)


And once again, starters who only can go 5 IP do not last long as a MLB starter, even if they are giving up just 1 run. It is like having weak hitters in the lineup. One or two, you might get by with. But when McCann, Iggy, Upton and Aviles are all in the lineup together against a RHP nothing good comes from it. Having 3 starters who cannot average 5.8 IP is terrible.

The standard for a starter is to keep their team in the game and last at least 6 innings. The hypotheticals are numerous. What about 8 IP and 4 ER? It isn't a QS, but the starter lasted late in the game. And how where those 4 runs scored? Was it the bullpen? Was it bad defense that didn't result in an error? Or was it just the manager not taking him out after 7? Or none of the above?

There are many more start metrics (8 IP 4 ER) that aren't a Quality Starts that are more valuable than your 5 IP 1 ER reference. Verlander going 5 IP and 1 ER wouldn't be considered a good start in my book. Yet, some would be thrilled that Pelfrey or Norris went 5 IP and 1 ER. The difference is the expectations.

After 45 years of statistical analysis and researching MLB history, I cannot see where 5 IP 1 ER is good in the long run. Maybe as an isolated start from someone coming back from the DL or another's MLB debut.
 
From an individual standpoint and once in awhile, maybe. From a team standpoint, over time, these types of starters tax the bullpen.

Average AL Starter (meaning #3) = 5.8 IP and 48% Quality Starts

IP/GS

Verlander 6.7 (6.6 career)

Fulmer 6.2 (6.2 career)

Zimmermann 6.1 (6.1 career)


Sanchez 5.3 (6.0 career)


Pelfrey 5.3 (5.7 career)

Boyd 5.0 (4.8 career)

Greene 4.4 (5.3 career)

Norris 4.0 (4.4 career)


And once again, starters who only can go 5 IP do not last long as a MLB starter, even if they are giving up just 1 run. It is like having weak hitters in the lineup. One or two, you might get by with. But when McCann, Iggy, Upton and Aviles are all in the lineup together against a RHP nothing good comes from it. Having 3 starters who cannot average 5.8 IP is terrible.

The standard for a starter is to keep their team in the game and last at least 6 innings. The hypotheticals are numerous. What about 8 IP and 4 ER? It isn't a QS, but the starter lasted late in the game. And how where those 4 runs scored? Was it the bullpen? Was it bad defense that didn't result in an error? Or was it just the manager not taking him out after 7? Or none of the above?

There are many more start metrics (8 IP 4 ER) that aren't a Quality Starts that are more valuable than your 5 IP 1 ER reference. Verlander going 5 IP and 1 ER wouldn't be considered a good start in my book. Yet, some would be thrilled that Pelfrey or Norris went 5 IP and 1 ER. The difference is the expectations.

After 45 years of statistical analysis and researching MLB history, I cannot see where 5 IP 1 ER is good in the long run. Maybe as an isolated start from someone coming back from the DL or another's MLB debut.

I understand all of this.

Like I said...I was just pointing out that Pelfrey had 4 good starts in July.

5 - 0
5 1/3 - 1
6 - 1
6 1/3 - 1
 
I understand all of this.

Like I said...I was just pointing out that Pelfrey had 4 good starts in July.

5 - 0
5 1/3 - 1
6 - 1
6 1/3 - 1

I guess I just have a different opinion. I think 5-0 and 5.1-1 are okay games not good. I just think pitching a lot of innings makes a good pitcher.
 
Catchers vs RHP

Anyone but McCann = 31-16 .660 WPCT

McCann = 14-20 .412 WPCT

Team = 45-36 .556 WPCT


Catchers vs LHP

McCann = 16-13 .552 WPCT

Salty = 0-3 .000 WPCT

Team = 16-16 .500 WPCT
 
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