jdeb said:

This pretty much sums up the state of the team come 2016. It also could have been the grounds for DD's dismissal. It's not a pleasant read.

http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2015/08/detroit_tigers_commitments_for.html

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I hate to mention this, but it doesn't get much better for 2017 either. We still have $107.8 Mil allocated to those same 5 players ($4 Mil less than 2016). We still have the same players Arbitration eligible, plus Castellanos, Gose, Holaday, A. Wilson, Zied, Krol and Rondon's first year of arbitration. Assuming they are still around.

2015 wRC+

M. Cabrera 182

J.D. Martinez 146

D. Travis 138 (traded for A. Gose)

E. Suarez 125 (traded for A. Simon)

Y. Cespedes 121

I. Kinsler 117

J. Iglesias 101

J. McCann 100

R. Davis 93

N. Castellanos 86

V. Martinez 84

A. Romine 82

A. Gose 82

A. Avila 71

I keep hearing that Mr. I is going to keep spending in order to try to win a championship. So, while things certainly aren't in great shape, particularly when costly players don't produce how they should, I don't think it's going to be the doom and gloom that some predict.

Prior to trading Price, Cespedes and Soria, Detroit was over the Luxury Tax threshold. Something Mr I. is said not wanting to exceed. It is also reported that they are due to lose $40 Mil this year, especially if they miss the playoffs.

Spending money on Free Agents at this point in Tigers' history does what exactly?

Insanity is keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. We have been down the spend money on Free Agents route. Why not give drafting and developing your own players a try? And then round out your needs with Free Agents.

Just get some relative cheap solid ball players, add in some of our newly acquired prospects and compete. Baseball 101.

Rebbiv said:

Prior to trading Price, Cespedes and Soria, Detroit was over the Luxury Tax threshold. Something Mr I. is said not wanting to exceed. It is also reported that they are due to lose $40 Mil this year, especially if they miss the playoffs.

Spending money on Free Agents at this point in Tigers' history does what exactly?

Insanity is keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. We have been down the spend money on Free Agents route. Why not give drafting and developing your own players a try? And then round out your needs with Free Agents.

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We definitely need to improve our drafting and player development, but that takes years to pay dividends and this is still a star heavy, compete now team. So, you need to decide to cut bait and go into a full on rebuilding mode to quicken that (not happening as long as it's Mr. I's team), or just get better about how and where you spend money while the rest develops (I also question this if Mr. I gets a wild hair).

For the time being, we need to find more cheap, controllable talent. We've done pretty well with that over the years, and have added several to the roster recently in Iglesias, Castellanos, McCann, Wilson, Norris, Boyd, etc.

If we feel like we've got a shot to win it all, we've got to spend or trade for the right free agents and hope that the parts traded away don't come back to haunt us. Again, we've done pretty well with that over the years too, though we twice fell short of winning the big prize. There was a definite method to Dombrowski's approach here, but it could only go on for so long, especially when our drafting and development lagged behind. I think the term "reboot" that was used to describe this current set of events was spot on. Just hoping it works and we can see the team stay competitive throughout.

I can't say I've heard anyone say this yet, but this reminds me a lot of the other Ilitch owned team, the Red Wings. They have been written off so many times as being at the end of their run and being in need of a full teardown, yet they continue to find ways to retool and stay as a playoff team. They've cut their spending, let expensive players walk or retire, let key leaders move on, brought in some younger guys, and they still just keep making the playoffs. They might not be the heavy favorites year in and year out like they once were, but they've still made a few runs deep into the playoffs too.

Mitchrapp said:

Just get some relative cheap solid ball players, add in some of our newly acquired prospects and compete. Baseball 101.

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Solid ball players are not cheap these days. The going rate for a bad defensive platoon player like Rajai was $5 million per year. Rates are only going up from here.

Rebbiv said:

Insanity is keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. We have been down the spend money on Free Agents route. Why not give drafting and developing your own players a try? And then round out your needs with Free Agents.

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So, that quote about insanity is not actually the definition of insanity. It was popularized by Bill Clinton, it did not originate with uncle Albert, but is older.

Nevertheless I hate it and folks who use it without understanding what it really means do not actually do what they are trying to do.

JackCade said:

Nevertheless I hate it and folks who use it without understanding what it really means do not actually do what they are trying to do.

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after writing a sentence like this...you really shouldn't be calling someone out for how they are trying to convey a point of view.

tomdalton22 said:

after writing a sentence like this...you really shouldn't be calling someone out for how they are trying to convey a point of view.

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JackCade said:

So, that quote about insanity is not actually the definition of insanity. It was popularized by Bill Clinton, it did not originate with uncle Albert, but is older.

Nevertheless I hate it and folks who use it without understanding what it really means do not actually do what they are trying to do.

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The adage has been in recovery rooms for tens of years and is a very appropriate description.

The problem is "normal" people don't get it.

Thundercats said:

Solid ball players are not cheap these days. The going rate for a bad defensive platoon player like Rajai was $5 million per year. Rates are only going up from here.

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I didn't infer 5m. Cheap in MLB speak means 8-10. They don't need to go after the highest priced guys or the best guys. Just solid..

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/2015-payroll-salaries.shtml

Baseball Reference puts the Tigers payroll at $141.3 Mil next year, without adding any other players.

With the current roster, the payroll would be:

2016 = $141.3 Mil
2017 = $153.7 Mil
2018 = $165.4 Mil ($192.1 Mil if Kinsler's and Sanchez' options are picked up)

tomdalton22 said:

after writing a sentence like this...you really shouldn't be calling someone out for how they are trying to convey a point of view.

Click to expand...

Rebbiv said:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/2015-payroll-salaries.shtml

Baseball Reference puts the Tigers payroll at $141.3 Mil next year, without adding any other players.

With the current roster, the payroll would be:

2016 = $141.3 Mil
2017 = $153.7 Mil
2018 = $165.4 Mil ($192.1 Mil if Kinsler's and Sanchez' options are picked up)

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Not much to room add... This sucks. Maybe Illitch will be desperate and pay luxury tax. Got to fix pitching staff or just start to rebuild. It's one or the other in my mind. 2 starters, 3 bullpen, and a left handed hitting catcher who can hit (Jasso). That's a lot of rabbit to pull out of the hat.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

A few posters have been saying Jaso is a possibility to be the Tigers catcher next year. Is he even a viable catcher? The Rays didn't have him catch a single game last year.

If there's one thing that's a pet peeve of mine, it's fans and writers pretending they have any insight whatsoever into what the budget plans are for a professional sports team. For all we know Iltch wants to spend another $100 million a year on top of what we are spending.

johnny2x2x said:

If there's one thing that's a pet peeve of mine, it's fans and writers pretending they have any insight whatsoever into what the budget plans are for a professional sports team. For all we know Iltch wants to spend another $100 million a year on top of what we are spending.

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Of course we don't know for sure but since they have never gone over the luxury tax threshold I think it is safe to assume that they are not willing to do so.

johnny2x2x said:

If there's one thing that's a pet peeve of mine, it's fans and writers pretending they have any insight whatsoever into what the budget plans are for a professional sports team. For all we know Iltch wants to spend another $100 million a year on top of what we are spending.

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God forbid any fans or writers that have any sort of intelligence when it comes to that sort of thing. Those no good math teachers they had have them all acting superior and realistic.