One more reason pitchers batting is not a great idea. They risk getting injured running down the line, all for the sake of bunting or striking out 90% of the time.

UMRules06 said:

One more reason pitchers batting is not a great idea. They risk getting injured running down the line, all for the sake of bunting or striking out 90% of the time.

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I guess Scherzer hurt himself batting this past Thursday.

Max Scherzer, who could miss his next start for the Washington Nationals with a sprained thumb, says the National League would be better served if pitchers weren't asked to bat.

Following his injury batting and the reported season-ending Achilles injury to Adam Wainwright, Scherzer told CBS Sports that it's time for the designated hitter to be used in both leagues.

"If you look at it from the macro side, who'd people rather see hit: Big Papi or me?" Scherzer told the website. "Who would people rather see, a real hitter hitting home runs or a pitcher swinging a wet newspaper? Both leagues need to be on the same set of rules."

Scherzer, who said he likes hitting, jammed his right wrist and thumb batting in Thursday's loss to the St. Louis Cardinals. He has only briefly played catch since sustaining the batting injury and missed a scheduled bullpen session Saturday.

"If you look at it long-term, I think eventually there will be a DH in the National League," Scherzer told CBS Sports.

Scherzer told The Washington Post he is "dealing with a little sprain" in his thumb, adding that the swelling increased more than expected Thursday night. The team began treatment the next day.

"I'm progressing every day. I'm literally day-to-day," Scherzer told the newspaper. "I'm making progress every single day from the treatments, doing the hot-cold contrast nonstop, so for me it's just keep doing the treatments and see where this goes."

Washington is off Sunday before starting a series at the Atlanta Braves on Monday. Scherzer would not commit to taking his turn in the rotation for Game 2 of the series Tuesday.

"I'm not ready to rule it out completely, but I also have to be honest with myself because any time you deal with an injury to your pitching hand, you literally have to be 100 percent to go back out there," Scherzer told the Post.

Isn't the big worry about pitcher hitting that they will strain/tear obliques while swinging the bat?

I remember a radio interview with Leyland a few years back talking about Verlander insisting he can hit homeruns, and Smokes saying he'd rather he just look at 3 straight strikes than strain his ribs trying to get a ball past the infield.

Either way, it's long past due for the universal DH. AL teams are already at a disadvantage sometimes having to bench one of their better hitters in N.L. parks, and I hate the old argument about the strategy involved in the double switch.

Sucks about Wainwright getting hurt, but maybe this is the wakeup call N.L. owners need to get proactive. Too late this year to alter the rules, but 2016 it could happen.

I've been saying it for years...having the pitcher hit in the NL is stupid. Who wants to go to a baseball game to watch a pitcher strike out 3 times a game? Of course the NL diehard will talk about the strategy of the "double switch". How exciting!

I think the rule still exist, no DH in NL, because they want to be different.

Plate Appearances of NL Pitchers hitting per game

2014 = 2.25 (3.74 9th hitter)

2013 = 2.26 (3.76 9th)

2012 = 2.26 (3.74 9th)


1974 = 2.81 (3.83 9th)

1973 = 2.82 (3.82 9th)

1972 = 2.85 (3.77 9th)


Plate Appearances of AL Pitchers hitting per game

2014 = 2.28 (3.77 9th)

2013 = 2.28 (3.79 9th)

2012 = 2.41 (3.78 9th)


1974 = (3.76 9th)

1973 = (3.81 9th)

1972 = 2.81 (3.68 9th)


As a rule, pitchers (starters and relievers) only average 2 1/4 Plate Appearances a game. There is still an average of 1 1/2 Plate Appearances a game where a pinch hitter is used. The PH is approximate to a DH. There is no huge difference in the AL (with DH) and NL as far as the rate of Plate Appearances for the #9 hitter. You would think the AL would have far more Plate Appearances.


2014 SEA DH's = .190 BAVG .266 OBP .301 SLG .567 OPS

2014 OAK DH's = .215 BAVG .294 OBP .343 SLG .637 OPS

2013 NYY DH's = .189 BAVG .276 OBP .307 SLG .583 OPS

2013 HOU DH's = .198 BAVG .276 OBP .337 SLG .613 OPS

2012 SEA DH's = .214 BAVG .287 OBP .310 SLG .597 OPS

Rebbiv said:

Plate Appearances of NL Pitchers hitting per game

2014 = 2.25 (3.74 9th hitter)

2013 = 2.26 (3.76 9th)

2012 = 2.26 (3.74 9th)


1974 = 2.81 (3.83 9th)

1973 = 2.82 (3.82 9th)

1972 = 2.85 (3.77 9th)


Plate Appearances of AL Pitchers hitting per game

2014 = 2.28 (3.77 9th)

2013 = 2.28 (3.79 9th)

2012 = 2.41 (3.78 9th)


1974 = (3.76 9th)

1973 = (3.81 9th)

1972 = 2.81 (3.68 9th)


As a rule, pitchers (starters and relievers) only average 2 1/4 Plate Appearances a game. There is still an average of 1 1/2 Plate Appearances a game where a pinch hitter is used. The PH is approximate to a DH. There is no huge difference in the AL (with DH) and NL as far as the rate of Plate Appearances for the #9 hitter. You would think the AL would have far more Plate Appearances.


2014 SEA DH's = .190 BAVG .266 OBP .301 SLG .567 OPS

2014 OAK DH's = .215 BAVG .294 OBP .343 SLG .637 OPS

2013 NYY DH's = .189 BAVG .276 OBP .307 SLG .583 OPS

2013 HOU DH's = .198 BAVG .276 OBP .337 SLG .613 OPS

2012 SEA DH's = .214 BAVG .287 OBP .310 SLG .597 OPS

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2014

NL pitchers hit .124 / OBP .156 / OPS .312
AL pitchers hit .089 / .110 / .219

AL DH .249 / .319 / .743
NL DH .210 / .269 / .616

In the AL, there's not many DH's that are DH's full time. At least that get qualified at bats..so I don't think you can lump them altogether.

Mitchrapp said:

In the AL, there's not many DH's that are DH's full time. At least that get qualified at bats..so I don't think you can lump them altogether.

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I just used ESPN's filter that has "as DH not PH"

tomdalton22 said:

I just used ESPN's filter that has "as DH not PH"

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I understand. I was just pointing out that as DH's numbers go, some are going to be low because they're in and out of the lineup throughout the year.

Mitchrapp said:

I understand. I was just pointing out that as DH's numbers go, some are going to be low because they're in and out of the lineup throughout the year.

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gotcha. I was just pointing out that overall, DH's are far superior hitters than pitchers.

I agree there..

Some teams just don't do good job of getting the right player..

tomdalton22 said:

gotcha. I was just pointing out that overall, DH's are far superior hitters than pitchers.

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Better yes, superior to pitchers yes, enough to go around NO.

How superior are they?

Runs Per Game

AL 2014 4.18 Runs Per Game .706 OPS
NL 2014 3.95 Runs Per Game .694 OPS

AL 2013 4.33 Runs Per Game .725 OPS
NL 2013 4.00 Runs Per Game .703 OPS

AL 2012 4.45 Runs Per Game .731 OPS
NL 2012 4.22 Runs Per Game .718 OPS


Obviously, having a DH helps the offensive numbers. But for the recent past, it only means .25 runs per game difference, or 40 runs over the course of a season, per team. But I believe most have a unrealistic expectation of what that actually means.

In 2014, NL pitchers had 5516 PAs. #9 hitter had 91739 PAs. Non-pitchers had 4038 PAs and only a .603 OPS.

You are not going to have Victor Martinez or David Ortiz types in the NL and sitting on the bench. But they also aren't playing for most the other AL teams. From 2012-2014, the TEX Rangers' DH combined for .247 BAVG .315 OBP .365 SLG .680 OPS. While that is better than the average NL pitcher (.335 OPS), it isn't too much better than the .609 OPS for the average #9 NL Hitter who isn't a pitcher.

I am trying to ascertain the reserve NL hitters who all of a sudden become full time DH's and what that might mean. None of them at the level of Dadi Ortiz or Victor Martinez.

You cannot take the AL Average DH containing Ortiz and Victor's stats and then draw a straight line to some conclusion. It doesn't work that way.

The mean OPS for all DH's from 2012-2014 in .720. The mean OPS for AL DH's from 2012-2014 in .733.

The mean OPS for #9 AL hitter from 2012-2014 is .642. The mean OPS for the #9 NL hitter is .462 (.609 non-pitcher).

I don't think it's fair to compare a P to a #9 hitter. Which is usually a MIF or CF, not a DH.

Rebbiv said:

Better yes, superior to pitchers yes, enough to go around NO.

How superior are they?

Runs Per Game

AL 2014 4.18 Runs Per Game .706 OPS
NL 2014 3.95 Runs Per Game .694 OPS

AL 2013 4.33 Runs Per Game .725 OPS
NL 2013 4.00 Runs Per Game .703 OPS

AL 2012 4.45 Runs Per Game .731 OPS
NL 2012 4.22 Runs Per Game .718 OPS


Obviously, having a DH helps the offensive numbers. But for the recent past, it only means .25 runs per game difference, or 40 runs over the course of a season, per team. But I believe most have a unrealistic expectation of what that actually means.

In 2014, NL pitchers had 5516 PAs. #9 hitter had 91739 PAs. Non-pitchers had 4038 PAs and only a .603 OPS.

You are not going to have Victor Martinez or David Ortiz types in the NL and sitting on the bench. But they also aren't playing for most the other AL teams. From 2012-2014, the TEX Rangers' DH combined for .247 BAVG .315 OBP .365 SLG .680 OPS. While that is better than the average NL pitcher (.335 OPS), it isn't too much better than the .609 OPS for the average #9 NL Hitter who isn't a pitcher.

I am trying to ascertain the reserve NL hitters who all of a sudden become full time DH's and what that might mean. None of them at the level of Dadi Ortiz or Victor Martinez.

You cannot take the AL Average DH containing Ortiz and Victor's stats and then draw a straight line to some conclusion. It doesn't work that way.

The mean OPS for all DH's from 2012-2014 in .720. The mean OPS for AL DH's from 2012-2014 in .733.

The mean OPS for #9 AL hitter from 2012-2014 is .642. The mean OPS for the #9 NL hitter is .462 (.609 non-pitcher).

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There are only 2 players in MLB that are worth a damn that are just a "DH"...Victor and Ortiz. The rest of the teams make due. If the NL were to adopt the DH you would probably see changes in the way they build their roster.

The bottom line...there is no good reason to have the pitcher hit...because they suck!

tomdalton22 said:

There are only 2 players in MLB that are worth a damn that are just a "DH"...Victor and Ortiz. The rest of the teams make due. If the NL were to adopt the DH you would probably see changes in the way they build their roster.

The bottom line...there is no good reason to have the pitcher hit...because they suck!

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Don't forget Billy Butler..

Mitchrapp said:

Don't forget Billy Butler..

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I didn't!

tomdalton22 said:

I didn't!

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He's been a good ball player. Last year notwithstanding..

Mitchrapp said:

Don't forget Billy Butler..

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http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...am=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=10,d