Welcome to Detroit Sports Forum!

By joining our community, you'll be able to connect with fellow fans that live and breathe Detroit sports just like you!

Get Started
  • If you are no longer able to access your account since our recent switch from vBulletin to XenForo, you may need to reset your password via email. If you no longer have access to the email attached to your account, please fill out our contact form and we will assist you ASAP. Thanks for your continued support of DSF.

Tigers lost $20.4 Mil in 2014

With the money we gave them it pretty much came out even. What we got, a solid 2B over what we gave up, an awful 1B. Those were my thoughts at the time. 2 years later and so far it's a clear win for us.

You can say we got Fister, initially for basically nothing, and the Green trade was good so far but that doesn't take away that trading Fister for dogshit was a stupid move. Plus we did trade someone else for Greene. Granted who knows if he's any good but still..

The Fister trade is a wound that will never heal with some tigers fans. It was a bad trade always will be nothing will ever change that. It would be great if Green could put in a solid season this year. He is a LOW COST starter pitching in a launching pad in New York last year. My personal opinion is that Shane Green is going to be a pitcher the Yankees are going to regret trading. His home and away splits are like night and day.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/32704/year/2014/shane-greene

Also the other player that was included in the Green trade with Robbie Ray was 19-year-old infielder Domingo Leyba. I doubt Leyba will amount to anything.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=leyba-000dom
 
Last edited:
For the record I think we ate a ton of money last year on the Fielder contract. I little bit of pain last year makes for a lot less pain in the years to come.

The Kinsler/Fielder trade saved this team for the next 6 years. To get out of Fielder's contract was like pulling a rabbit out of a hat for our GM.

Kinsler - Contract keeps going down a little bit every year. While we see Prince Fielder doing belly flops on national T.V.

This team will always be competitive. The GM is top notch. Also Green for Ray helps make up for the Fister trade. Low cost player that throws strikes and has looked awesome so far this year.

While no GM is perfect I like where this team is headed with Dave Dombrowski as GM.

No Prince Fielder had nothing to do with DET losing money in 2014, in fact trading him saved/saves money for 2014 & 2015 ($8 Mil a year). The $30 Mil that was kicked in to TEX does not take effect until 2016 and at a rate of $6 Mil a year for 5 years.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/american-league/detroit-tigers/

We have 9 players making roughly $65 Mil in 2015 that can become a FA at year's end. We have 3 more critical players beginning their arbitration years. We have almost $112 Mil committed in 2016, totaling just 5 players. The arbitration players would bring that to $130 Mil

The farm system is weak, so you are paying veteran minimum ($1 Mil) to start and you need 17 more players to fill the roster.
 
The Fister trade is a wound that will never heal with some tigers fans. It was a bad trade always will be nothing will ever change that. It would be great if Green could put in a solid season this year. He is a LOW COST starter pitching in a launching pad in New York last year. My personal opinion is that Shane Green is going to be a pitcher the Yankees are going to regret trading. His home and away splits are like night and day.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/32704/year/2014/shane-greene

Also the other player that was included in the Green trade with Robbie Ray was 19-year-old infielder Domingo Leyba. I doubt Leyba will amount to anything.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=leyba-000dom


But Lombardozzi was going to be something special as well?
 
No Prince Fielder had nothing to do with DET losing money in 2014, in fact trading him saved/saves money for 2014 & 2015 ($8 Mil a year). The $30 Mil that was kicked in to TEX does not take effect until 2016 and at a rate of $6 Mil a year for 5 years.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/american-league/detroit-tigers/

We have 9 players making roughly $65 Mil in 2015 that can become a FA at year's end. We have 3 more critical players beginning their arbitration years. We have almost $112 Mil committed in 2016, totaling just 5 players. The arbitration players would bring that to $130 Mil

The farm system is weak, so you are paying veteran minimum ($1 Mil) to start and you need 17 more players to fill the roster.

That's why I posted I think I wasn't sure just knew money was coming off. I am glad the Rangers have Prince Fielder and not Detroit. Also the black hole at 2nd base prior to the Fielder trade has been filled with a gold glove caliber All Star type of 2nd baseman.

While Detroit pays 6 million of Princes contract this year. The sliver lining is Kinsler's declining dollar amount contract can absorb 2 million in 2016, 5 million in 2017 and when his 10 million option is picked up in 2018, the whole 6 million can be offset that year. Which will be the same amount Omar Infante will make in 2018.


http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/detroit-tigers/ian-kinsler/
 
Last edited:
That's why I posted I think I wasn't sure just knew money was coming off. I am glad the Rangers have Prince Fielder and not Detroit. Also the black hole at 2nd base prior to the Fielder trade has been filled with a gold glove caliber All Star type of 2nd baseman.

While Detroit pays 6 million of Princes contract this year. The sliver lining is Kinsler's declining dollar amount contract can absorb 2 million in 2016, 5 million in 2017 and when his 10 million option is picked up in 2018, the whole 6 million can be offset that year. Which will be the same amount Omar Infante will make in 2018.


http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/detroit-tigers/ian-kinsler/


It is amazing at the amount of hyperbole you spew.

What black hole? Has Kinsler won a Gold Glove?

And once again, DET does not start paying on Fielder until next year.
 
It is amazing at the amount of hyperbole you spew.

What black hole? Has Kinsler won a Gold Glove?

And once again, DET does not start paying on Fielder until next year.

Kinsler is no super stud defensive 2B but don't use GG as an example. How many did Jeter win for being substandard. GG doesn't mean anything these days..
 
Kinsler is no super stud defensive 2B but don't use GG as an example. How many did Jeter win for being substandard. GG doesn't mean anything these days..


I know Mitch. It is like saying Brandon Inge was Gold Glove caliber. Saying someone is above average or good, is not the same as Gold Glove caliber.

There are various defensive metrics. Which ones are more relevant?

There are 26 MLB 2B with at least 1,500 innings played at that position over the last 3 years:

FPCT = Kinsler 21st

UZR/150 = Kinsler 12th

RZR = Kinsler 12th


Other FanGraph data

Fan Scouting Report = Kinsler 10th

Inside Edge 90-100% = Kinsler 24th
 
Last edited:
I understand that. I just get a little pissy I guess over the word gold glove. Because at one time it was based on defense alone. The days of a Mark Belanger type winning a GG is over..and a bit disappointing.
 
I know Mitch. It is like saying Brandon Inge was Gold Glove caliber. Saying someone is above average or good, is not the same as Gold Glove caliber.

There are various defensive metrics. Which ones are more relevant?

There are 26 MLB 2B with at least 1,500 innings played at that position over the last 3 years:

FPCT = Kinsler 21st

UZR/150 = Kinsler 12th

RZR = Kinsler 12th


Other FanGraph data

Fan Scouting Report = Kinsler 10th

Inside Edge 90-100% = Kinsler 24th


I'm more interested in what he's done with the Tiger's. Not what he did with Texas for 2 years.

His numbers last year placed him near the top of most defensive categories, correct?
 
I understand that. I just get a little pissy I guess over the word gold glove. Because at one time it was based on defense alone. The days of a Mark Belanger type winning a GG is over..and a bit disappointing.

100% agree
 
I'm more interested in what he's done with the Tiger's. Not what he did with Texas for 2 years.

His numbers last year placed him near the top of most defensive categories, correct?

Yes they did. Everyone goes on the DL in Texas it seems. It's to damn hot down there. Kinslers stats were not far off from Robinson Cano who makes 2 times the salary of Kinsler
 
But Lombardozzi was going to be something special as well?

Lombo was only one of the players in the trade. Krol is still around and how is Green(who Ray was traded for) looking these days for a fraction of the price of Fister.
 
I'm more interested in what he's done with the Tiger's. Not what he did with Texas for 2 years.

His numbers last year placed him near the top of most defensive categories, correct?

You must believe that players cannot have a career or fluke season outside of their norm. Or conversely, an off year.

This is exactly why, when possible, you use 3 years of data. Except in your case, when it doesn't support your argument.

As anyone that knows my style of posting, I almost always use 3 years of data. For offense and pitching, it generally is away stats, as it mitigates home park biases.
 
Lombo was only one of the players in the trade. Krol is still around and how is Green(who Ray was traded for) looking these days for a fraction of the price of Fister.

But you were the one making a case for Lomardozzi as being a key to the deal....along with taking offense when I said Robbie Ray would probably end up being nothing more than a LOOGY.

Now, you are saying Lebya isn't anything great to loose, which is not the deal.
 
You must believe that players cannot have a career or fluke season outside of their norm. Or conversely, an off year.

This is exactly why, when possible, you use 3 years of data. Except in your case, when it doesn't support your argument.

As anyone that knows my style of posting, I almost always use 3 years of data. For offense and pitching, it generally is away stats, as it mitigates home park biases.

Do those stats factor in his ankle surgery prior to the 2012 season that hampered him most of that season or the fact that he was looking over his shoulder(Profar) in 2013?

Bottom line is that he's happy now and back to playing the solid defense that he played before those 2 bad seasons.
 
Do those stats factor in his ankle surgery prior to the 2012 season that hampered him most of that season or the fact that he was looking over his shoulder(Profar) in 2013?

Bottom line is that he's happy now and back to playing the solid defense that he played before those 2 bad seasons.


What ankle surgery? You mean the procedure he had in October 2011 where doctors injected Platelet Rich Plasma into his troublesome right ankle? That had been effecting him since 2010? So we should ignore 2010 and 2011 stats, with 2011 probably his best defensive season?

Next you suggest he was looking over his shoulder because of a 19-year old minor league player, who was just a late season call up? Maybe that is why we traded Devon Travis, Euqenio Suarez and Domingo Leyba....we didn't want Kinsler looking over his shoulder and play terrible defense because of it.


I never once said Kinsler was a bad defensive 2B. He is an above average/good 2B. He is not Gold Glove caliber, as in what it meant to be Gold Glove.

If Jose Iglesias has a down year in 2015 defensively, then you can make a case for him sitting out all of 2014 due to shins. But having an injection 6 month before the start of a season is hardly a reason for explaining a down year.
 
Last edited:
What ankle surgery? You mean the procedure he had in October 2011 where doctors injected Platelet Rich Plasma into his troublesome right ankle? That had been effecting him since 2010? So we should ignore 2010 and 2011 stats, with 2011 probably his best defensive season?

Next you suggest he was looking over his shoulder because of a 19-year old minor league player, who was just a late season call up? Maybe that is why we traded Devon Travis, Euqenio Suarez and Domingo Leyba....we didn't want Kinsler looking over his shoulder and play terrible defense because of it.


I never once said Kinsler was a bad defensive 2B. He is an above average/good 2B. He is not Gold Glove caliber, as in what it meant to be Gold Glove.

If Jose Iglesias has a down year in 2015 defensively, then you can make a case for him sitting out all of 2014 due to shins. But having an injection 6 month before the start of a season is hardly a reason for explaining a down year.


http://espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/story/_/id/8837865/ian-kinsler-texas-rangers-happy-stay-second-base

Again, I could give 2 shits what he did in Texas.

I'm not really into arguing with you again over stupid shit.

I was done right about your Logan Morrison > JD Martinez stance last year.
 
http://espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/story/_/id/8837865/ian-kinsler-texas-rangers-happy-stay-second-base

Again, I could give 2 shits what he did in Texas.

I'm not really into arguing with you again over stupid shit.

I was done right about your Logan Morrison > JD Martinez stance last year.

http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/2012/01/ian-kinsler-over-two-years-of.html/


There is no argument. You make unsubstantiated claims and I call you out on it.

And then you bring up Logan Morrison once again. And it still is out of context. I like Logan Morrison because he is cheap ($2.75 Mil in 2015), under team control until 2017 and a LH that can play corner OF and 1B. I brought him up in the trade from Rajai Davis thread. Prior to the start of last season, yes, he was greater than J.D. Martinez and certainly a better player than Rajai Davis. Get off it already.
 
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/2012/01/ian-kinsler-over-two-years-of.html/


There is no argument. You make unsubstantiated claims and I call you out on it.

And then you bring up Logan Morrison once again. And it still is out of context. I like Logan Morrison because he is cheap ($2.75 Mil in 2015), under team control until 2017 and a LH that can play corner OF and 1B. I brought him up in the trade from Rajai Davis thread. Prior to the start of last season, yes, he was greater than J.D. Martinez and certainly a better player than Rajai Davis. Get off it already.

Seriously, why do you get so angry when someone has a different opinion than yourself?

Who cares if he's lefty and cheap if he's not that good?
 
Remember, you're arguing with a poster who made the claim that Infante = Kinsler. He's the very definition a narcissist.
 
Back
Top