Personally I don't think anyone is a bit spoiled, rather perhaps a bit too hungry for a title, can you be too hungry? I think you can, it's a bit like trying too hard.

tigermud said:

Personally I don't think anyone is a bit spoiled, rather perhaps a bit too hungry for a title, can you be too hungry? I think you can, it's a bit like trying too hard.

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fair point.

Trust me I'm not happy with some of the playoff meltdowns of late but I think you put that on the players...The Red Sox meltdown especially.

jimmygank said:

fair point.

Trust me I'm not happy with some of the playoff meltdowns of late but I think you put that on the players...The Red Sox meltdown especially.

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The bullpen let us down against Boston.

stonecold2136 said:

The bullpen let us down against Boston.

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Yes the pen in consecutive series was not playoff worthy but the offense hasn't exactly been stellar in our series losses in the last 3 years

I will grant you all this much...I take my defense of the "infrastructure" of the Tigers rather seriously (too much probably) because I see all too often fan bases push the dusty bakers of the world out thinking they will get bruce bochy. More often than not they end up with the Brian prices of the world. Same thing with the Browns. ..they have an extremely loyal fan base and yet the organization can't settle with one regime to run the team and we have perpetual dysfunction. After living much of my childhood rooting for a terribly ran Detroit Tigers I'm all in on DD. He has had way more hits than misses.

zoombabyzoom said:

Anyone who says we can't is well not informed.

Check out the money from the new TV deal that is hitting and understand that each team gets a boat load more money each year.

For instance, I believe starting this year ESPNs contract alone gives the MLB 700 million a year! Up from 306!!! Meaning in just the first year of the deal from just ESPN (not including others) each team gets 13 extra million to play with.

The estimated boost for each team from all networks comes around 40+ million.

Yeah we can afford whatever we want.

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http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-new-national-tv-contracts-and-2014-payrolls/

No, it is more like $25 Mil if MLB so chooses.

That?s $1.5 billion in national TV revenue per season that will go into MLB?s Central Fund, or $750 million more than under the contracts that just expired. MLB can spend money from the Central Fund in a variety of ways, but it?s been assumed in the reporting that the league will distribute the TV money to the teams. If so, each team will receive $25 million more in national TV revenue in 2014 through 2021 than they did in 2013.


Detroit lost $20.4 Mil in 2014 even with the supposed $25 Mil increase. Their payroll is uo $9 Mil from 2014, when they lost $20.4 Mil.

When a team "makes" money, the owners just don't pocket the money. They re-invest back into the team. Either in the form of player development, minor league training facilities or other infrastructure costs. DET has not made money in 5 of the last 7 years. During that time, DET has lost $90.1 Mil, or $12.9 Mil a year.

Last 7 years Operating Income

TEAM Last 7 CHC $239.6 Mil
WSN $231.0 Mil
SFG $224.1 Mil
STL $223.1 Mil
SDP $213.4 Mil
BOS $188.6 Mil
HOU $165.2 Mil
PIT $164.4 Mil
OAK $161.9 Mil
MIN $157.4 Mil
BAL $148.3 Mil
ATL $133.2 Mil
CHW $130.7 Mil
COL $120.5 Mil
MIA $119.3 Mil
TBR $111.5 Mil
CLE $101.8 Mil
KCR $93.3 Mil
CIN $83.7 Mil
MIL $80.8 Mil
SEA $71.1 Mil
NYY $57.5 Mil
TEX $50.1 Mil
LAA $42.7 Mil
ARZ $36.5 Mil
NYM $27.0 Mil
TOR $7.2 Mil
LAD $-6.1 Mil
PHI $-31.1 Mil
DET $-90.1

There are two teams with a negative operating loss over the last 10 years, DET (-$73.3) and NYY (-$65.0). Around the time George Steinbrenner passed away, the Yankees started to rein in their spending ($57.5 Mil gain over the last 7 years) and trying to develop their own players. Yet, they still have to trade for an MLB SS.


I am happy DET has put a competitive team on the field after years of losing. The issue is it is not sustainable. Once the collapse happens, it will take just as long to return to being competitive.

Damn That is baseball depressing...

jimmygank said:

I could see them keeping Avila depending on how the year pans out. But with that I'd think that would mean they sacrifice elsewhere.

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My point is we don't have a ml replacement. Not even sure we have a ml replacement for Davis.

Not thinking we have someone who could replace raji is pretty much the line of thinking when I say we have to be more realistic. Ultimately we can't have top 10 players at every position and run this economically successful model at the same time. If you look at fan graphs 5 of the top 28 pitchers in FIP from 2012 to 2014 all spent time with detroit. From a financial standpoint there is no way we can sustain that without the market driving their cost way up. Using raji as an example there is no reason to spend 5 million to get raji when they can bring up organizational depth and start gose more often.

There is no reason to keep a rick porcello on the roster as a 4 or a 5 when he is going for 20 million a year. No reason to pay Simon 7 million minimum to be a fifth starter. We just need the fifth starter to be serviceable. Fifth starters have zero value in the playoffs...let's face it fourth starters aren't huge either. Yes we need to MAKE the playoffs and I get that but we can't as fans expect to have this amazing top to bottom depth.

jimmygank said:

Not thinking we have someone who could replace raji is pretty much the line of thinking when I say we have to be more realistic.

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Who's not be realistic, me or you who thinks we actually have any ml talent than can play in the show?

This isn't about talent at every position. What I'm saying is if Davis becomes too expensive go get someone else, from another team. Because we have no one at the ml level. We traded our best ml player for Gose. Doesn't that tell you what the ml system looks like?

And of course you don't need 5 stud SP's. Who said you did? But you need more than a 5th starter who's more than fodder. They might not pitch in the playoffs but they'll help you get there..

I'm not accusing anyone specifically of being unrealistic but yes I think it is unrealistic to think you need Raji Davis as a platoon guy at 5 million plus instead of rolling with the best of the mud hens outfielders. Of the four yes I think one of them is capable.of major league at bats. Ditto with lobstein etc...he was serviceable in the 5th starter role and that's all most teams are going to get. So if u go all in a guy like price or retain Soria and cespedes as a fan u have to understand you're probably looking at Avery or Lobstein for example at other spots no? It's when the fans expect to have a 2013 type rotation that they are only setting themselves up for disappointment is my point.

jimmygank said:

I'm not accusing anyone specifically of being unrealistic but yes I think it is unrealistic to think you need Raji Davis as a platoon guy at 5 million plus instead of rolling with the best of the mud hens outfielders. Of the four yes I think one of them is capable.of major league at bats. Ditto with lobstein etc...he was serviceable in the 5th starter role and that's all most teams are going to get. So if u go all in a guy like price or retain Soria and cespedes as a fan u have to understand you're probably looking at Avery or Lobstein for example at other spots no? It's when the fans expect to have a 2013 type rotation that they are only setting themselves up for disappointment is my point.

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I don't think you understand my point. The ml system is bad, so bad that we had to trade are "best" prospect for Gose. We don't have a ml CF that can hit even close to what Davis brings, that's how bad they are.

Mitchrapp said:

I don't think you understand my point. The ml system is bad, so bad that we had to trade are "best" prospect for Gose. We don't have a ml CF that can hit even close to what Davis brings, that's how bad they are.

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They say that in terms of WAR one win is worth $5 million. Davis' last 3 seasons WAR were .8, 1.6 and 1.2. Basically, he played a little better than what the Tigers paid him.

tomdalton22 said:

They say that in terms of WAR one win is worth $5 million. Davis' last 3 seasons WAR were .8, 1.6 and 1.2. Basically, he played a little better than what the Tigers paid him.

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I don't mind him and what else you going to get for less than 5m? There just isn't one person I'm excited about in our minor league system..

Mitchrapp said:

I don't mind him and what else you going to get for less than 5m? There just isn't one person I'm excited about in our minor league system..

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I agree 100%.

tomdalton22 said:

They say that in terms of WAR one win is worth $5 million. Davis' last 3 seasons WAR were .8, 1.6 and 1.2. Basically, he played a little better than what the Tigers paid him.

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Tom, price of WAR, last I read was more towards 6 Million and maybe half a Million higher than 5.

kalinecountry said:

Tom, price of WAR, last I read was more towards 6 Million and maybe half a Million higher than 5.

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probably...I think the article I was reading was from 2014.

It's gonna get interesting in a couple years.

Next year....

Price will go to Cubs, Simon will hit FA and they will be replaced financially with Fister and Kasmir. Cespedes will be replaced by Moya. I think they will resign Davis. Avila will be gone and replaced with Jaso. they will resign Benoit.

2016

1B Miggy / Collins
2B Kinsler / Perez
SS Iggy / Perez
3B Casty / Perez
C McCann / Jaso
LF Moya / Collins
CF Gose / Davis or Stubbs
RF JDMart / Collins
DH VMart / Moya

SP
JV
Sanchez
Fister
Kasmir
Greene

Bullpen
CL Soria
Benoit
Nesbit
Al Al
Gorzo
Krol
Farmer

Still a very good looking team, not as bleak as some think.

Things never seem bleak when you can just use your imagination to decide next years team.

Thumb said:

Things never seem bleak when you can just use your imagination to decide next years team.

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Right. Lol.