Welcome to Detroit Sports Forum!

By joining our community, you'll be able to connect with fellow fans that live and breathe Detroit sports just like you!

Get Started
  • If you are no longer able to access your account since our recent switch from vBulletin to XenForo, you may need to reset your password via email. If you no longer have access to the email attached to your account, please fill out our contact form and we will assist you ASAP. Thanks for your continued support of DSF.

Scherzer or Price?

In a perfect world you let Scherzer walk and collect the 1st round pick. Then trade Price to St Louis for Shelby Miller and a bp arm. Then use the the money that would go to Price this year in arbitration to sign Brandon McCarthy and Andrew Miller.

But thats a perfect world

In a perfect world we keep adding pitching?

I want the imperfect world where we address the need for everyday players. For example a bona fide leadoff hitter and a lefthanded power bat. Neither of which is truly available via Free Agent.
 
I tend to agree with you Rebbiv, but reality quickly has to knock you over the head and make you realize that it's a seller's market and the athletes are going to continue to get more than they deserve (both in years and dollars), and there is almost always going to at least one suitor who will offer them the deal they are seeking. Understanding that will force you to either play by those rules and keep shelling out big money for "names", or you take the approach that the Rays, Astros, Royals, etc. take and try to build from within and sell off talent when it matures and starts to get costly. That switch won't be happening while Mr. I is around though. He's too old, too rich, loves superstars, and still wants a WS ring.

Seller's market? You mean like trading a top 30 starter for some ML ready help? Fister deal?

The Fister deal was supposed to be about cutting cost and getting younger. How has that panned out so far?
 
In a perfect world we keep adding pitching?

I want the imperfect world where we address the need for everyday players. For example a bona fide leadoff hitter and a lefthanded power bat. Neither of which is truly available via Free Agent.
My point is adding cheaper options in the rotation to commit money elsewhere. Not a good thing to have half your payroll tied up in 5 players
 
It would be great if we stopped trying the stars and scrubs approach, but DD as much as said today that he was going to keep doing it, so basically we're fucked.
 
It would be great if we stopped trying the stars and scrubs approach, but DD as much as said today that he was going to keep doing it, so basically we're fucked.
Yes its been working so well for the Dodgers, Yankees, and Phillies the past few years why change.
 
My point is adding cheaper options in the rotation to commit money elsewhere. Not a good thing to have half your payroll tied up in 5 players

You mean like having Drew Smyly in the rotation?

I am not knocking your notion. It is just understand who the man is that is in charge of implementation and that he has done what you are saying.

Fister ($7.2 Mil in 2014) had one more year of being cost controlled over Scherzer ($15.5 Mil in 2014) and he was the one traded. DD said it was to cut costs and to get Smyly into the rotation and presumably used the "saved money" to shore up the bull pen (Chamberlain $2.5 Mil, Nathan $9 Mil) and OF (R. Davis $5 Mil).

2 December Fister Trade

4 December Nathan signed

11 December R. Davis signed

13 December Chamberlain signed

And at mid-season, we trade Smyly ($0.5 Mil) for Price ($14.0 Mil). Now we want to trade Price/Scherzer for cost controlled young pitchers so we use the 'saved money" to shore up the bull pen and possibly elsewhere.

Shelby Miller ($0.5 Mil in 2014) is a FA in 2019

Drew Smyly ($0.5 Mil in 2014) is a FA in 2019

Is this not going in circles?
 
Last edited:
You mean like having Drew Smyly in the rotation?

I am not knocking your notion. It is just understand who the man is that is in charge of implementation and that he has done what you are saying.

Fister ($7.2 Mil in 2014) had one more year of being cost controlled over Scherzer ($15.5 Mil in 2014) and he was the one traded. DD said it was to cut costs and to get Smyly into the rotation and presumably used the "saved money" to shore up the bull pen (Chamberlain $2.5 Mil, Nathan $9 Mil) and OF (R. Davis $5 Mil).

2 December Fister Trade

4 December Nathan signed

11 December R. Davis signed

13 December Chamberlain signed

And at mid-season, we trade Smyly ($0.5 Mil) for Price ($14.0 Mil). Now we want to trade Price/Scherzer for cost controlled young pitchers so we use the 'saved money" to shore up the bull pen and possibly elsewhere.

Shelby Miller ($0.5 Mil in 2014) is a FA in 2019

Drew Smyly ($0.5 Mil in 2014) is a FA in 2019

Is this not going in circles?

FULL
But fix the BULL PEN or it won't matter who starts.
 
Seller's market? You mean like trading a top 30 starter for some ML ready help? Fister deal?

The Fister deal was supposed to be about cutting cost and getting younger. How has that panned out so far?

I was referring to the open, free agent market, not the trade market. In the open, free agent market, guys are going to continue to get overpaid.

The Fister deal has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I didn't understand it, and I didn't like it. I'm also not conviced it was really about money. I think DD really liked Ray and wanted another lefty starter. That said, judging that trade now (especially when you post in other threads about the Smoltz deal) seems a little silly. You usually don't know the true value of a trade until long after it is executed. Who's to say Fister doesn't suddenly develop gangrene in his pitching arm and have it fall off and end his career? Who knows what will happen with Ray? Maybe he'll become the next Sandy Koufax. Both seem pretty doubtful, but neither of us have a crystal ball to help see the future.
 
I think you trade him in the off season or keep him for the entire 2015 season. The only way you would trade him in July is if the Tigers are out of the playoff hunt which I doubt will be the case.
 
You mean like having Drew Smyly in the rotation?

I am not knocking your notion. It is just understand who the man is that is in charge of implementation and that he has done what you are saying.

Fister ($7.2 Mil in 2014) had one more year of being cost controlled over Scherzer ($15.5 Mil in 2014) and he was the one traded. DD said it was to cut costs and to get Smyly into the rotation and presumably used the "saved money" to shore up the bull pen (Chamberlain $2.5 Mil, Nathan $9 Mil) and OF (R. Davis $5 Mil).

2 December Fister Trade

4 December Nathan signed

11 December R. Davis signed

13 December Chamberlain signed

And at mid-season, we trade Smyly ($0.5 Mil) for Price ($14.0 Mil). Now we want to trade Price/Scherzer for cost controlled young pitchers so we use the 'saved money" to shore up the bull pen and possibly elsewhere.

Shelby Miller ($0.5 Mil in 2014) is a FA in 2019

Drew Smyly ($0.5 Mil in 2014) is a FA in 2019

Is this not going in circles?
Agree with you totally. If it were up to me we would have traded Scherzer last year instead of fister and never would have traded for Price. Starting pitching can take you far, but when it makes up for about half of your payroll I believe it turns in to your achilles heal
 
I think you trade him in the off season or keep him for the entire 2015 season. The only way you would trade him in July is if the Tigers are out of the playoff hunt which I doubt will be the case.

It's a little too early to say but with the team we have currently it's not far fetched we don't make the playoffs. They were a .500 team most of the season. Or even in the hunt.
 
Last edited:
It's a little too early to say but with the team we have currently it's not far fetched we don't make the playoffs. They were a .500 team most of the season. Or even in the hunt.

KC was a .500 team most of the season outside of a few hot streaks. taking our start out of consideration makes about as much sense as taking our slumps out of consideration.

I think we're still in win-now mode, it's very hard to re-tool and stay competitive, especially since we have little/nothing as far as position player help in the high rungs of the minors. we really lucked out with JD, that will carry us for a while.

my original point is about Max/Price, if we are looking to sign one of them long term, it doesn't matter much which one in terms of dollars. it might make more sense to sign Max and let Price walk, you're just pushing your comp pick down one more year.
 
KC was a .500 team most of the season outside of a few hot streaks. taking our start out of consideration makes about as much sense as taking our slumps out of consideration.

I think we're still in win-now mode, it's very hard to re-tool and stay competitive, especially since we have little/nothing as far as position player help in the high rungs of the minors. we really lucked out with JD, that will carry us for a while.

my original point is about Max/Price, if we are looking to sign one of them long term, it doesn't matter much which one in terms of dollars. it might make more sense to sign Max and let Price walk, you're just pushing your comp pick down one more year.
But if you resign Max you will have 100 million dollars locked up on your Payroll this year. Hard to fix the bullpen, outfield, and bench when you have that
 
KC was a .500 team most of the season outside of a few hot streaks. taking our start out of consideration makes about as much sense as taking our slumps out of consideration.

I think we're still in win-now mode, it's very hard to re-tool and stay competitive, especially since we have little/nothing as far as position player help in the high rungs of the minors. we really lucked out with JD, that will carry us for a while.

my original point is about Max/Price, if we are looking to sign one of them long term, it doesn't matter much which one in terms of dollars. it might make more sense to sign Max and let Price walk, you're just pushing your comp pick down one more year.

Problem is that Max is gone..so he's not in the equation. Well not really a problem but he's not really a choice any more..
 
Last edited:
But if you resign Max you will have 100 million dollars locked up on your Payroll this year. Hard to fix the bullpen, outfield, and bench when you have that
Payroll is only a problem when it prevents you from making other moves. If they're willing to push it to 170 or 180 then you do sign him and you can let price walk after the season.
 
Payroll is only a problem when it prevents you from making other moves. If they're willing to push it to 170 or 180 then you do sign him and you can let price walk after the season.
Payroll is already over 150 million with arbitration numbers and sorias option. That's before free agency, if you add Max and Victor it will balloon up over 190 million. Then you still need a CF, a LF, and bullpen help
 
Back
Top