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Brexit

Should they stay or should they go now?

  • Remain in the EU

    Votes: 6 42.9%

  • Leave the EU

    Votes: 7 50.0%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 1 7.1%
  • Total voters
    14
tinselwolverine said:
Right.

That and also refusing to change to driving on the continental side of the road.

I've been wondering what the side of the road ramifications will be if Scotland and Northern Ireland leave the UK.

Also the impact on The Open Championship.

Combined, the two could be considered "The Side of the Road Hole Bunker Canundrem."
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That's also why we have Little Italy and Chinatown, but never Wee Britain.

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Interesting article from the guardian earlier:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
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The British Politicians seem to be trying to use the scorched earth policy...its ridiculous. I also read that some of the people who voted for 'Leave' regret their vote because they only did so out of protest. Talk about being dumb..
 
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tbone413 said:
Interesting article from the guardian earlier:



The British Politicians seem to be trying to use the scorched earth policy...its ridiculous. I also read that some of the people who voted for 'Leave' regret their vote because they only did so out of protest. Talk about being dumb..
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"I voted this way because fuck liberal internationalists and fuck foreigners... I didn't know there would be actual consequences. Politics is complicated."
 
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A lot of what I've seen about the negative side of this focuses on stock market reactions to uncertainty. That's the dumbest thing to focus on in my opinion. Short-sighted. If anything, it's an indication that the financial markets play too large a role. Too much power is concentrated there.
 
Gulo Blue said:
A lot of what I've seen about the negative side of this focuses on stock market reactions to uncertainty. That's the dumbest thing to focus on in my opinion. Short-sighted. If anything, it's an indication that the financial markets play too large a role. Too much power is concentrated there.
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I don't necessarily think that's a sign the markets play an outsized role, but I do agree focusing on the day-to-day performance of the market to draw broad political conclusions is dumb.

while yeah, uncertainty probably plays a role in the current selloff, market uncertainty is no reason not to do something. markets address the uncertainty and then they move on. and some uncertainty was probably already baked into the price (assuming some rational people are participating... which granted can be a big assumption). and typically there are many unique events that move markets that go unreported and may have nothing to do with current events, yet the financial press likes to lump them together or attribute them to something because it makes it sound like they know what theyre talking about.
 
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michchamp said:
the financial press likes to lump them together or attribute them to something because it makes it sound like they know what theyre talking about.
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At the end of the day, they're in showbiz too.

They gotta tell a story that brings eyeballs in for advertisers, just like everybody else.
 
Gulo Blue said:
A lot of what I've seen about the negative side of this focuses on stock market reactions to uncertainty. That's the dumbest thing to focus on in my opinion. Short-sighted. If anything, it's an indication that the financial markets play too large a role. Too much power is concentrated there.
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It's bad but far worse than the financial press is the MSM coverage of the Brexit - idiots like Fareed Zakaria and George Stephanopolous and their ilk have been calling the referendum reason vs. xenophobia and predicting the collapse/demise of Britain and the UK. They're trotting out the same tired line - if you don't agree with the stated leftist, globalist, pro-central planning position then you're racist and probably at least as bad as Hitler. So sure of the virtue and the flawlessness of their opinions that the only possible explanation for dissent is racism. It's like an entire industry of Michturds only with better educations.

As if the world's 5th largest economy with the 4th largest military is just going to disappear or fade into obscurity, left behind by the rest of the EU. Please, give me a break. Switzerland, not part of the EU and the EU takes in 55% of their exports. Norway, also not part of the EU and the EU buys 81% of their exports (granted, a lot of that is oil). Both those countries have thrived while the EU has stagnated for decades - they haven't thrived despite not being in the EU, it's BECAUSE they're not in the EU that they've outperformed economically - socially as well, (trigger warning) unless you think not taking in hundreds of thousands of migrants who hate their culture but love their welfare benefits is bad for them. The EU is a low growth economic basket case and it's only going to become more dysfunctional when they push for more of a political union - the EU isn't leaving anybody behind, they're falling further and further behind.

The UK will be fine. They won't be coming to the table with a weak hand against the EU. They will negotiate fair, arms length deals and treaties with the EU and the rest of the world. Someday, Germany is going to wake up to the fact that the price they're paying for cheap currency isn't worth it but it's possible the EU could fall apart even before then if other countries follow the UK's lead when they realize Germany is the only country benefiting from the EU - besides the welfare states that are going to be getting bailouts every half generation or so.
 
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Spartanmack said:
It's bad but far worse than the financial press is the MSM coverage of the Brexit - idiots like Fareed Zakaria and George Stephanopolous and their ilk have been calling the referendum reason vs. xenophobia and predicting the collapse/demise of Britain and the UK. They're trotting out the same tired line - if you don't agree with the stated leftist, globalist, pro-central planning position then you're racist and probably at least as bad as Hitler. So sure of the virtue and the flawlessness of their opinions that the only possible explanation for dissent is racism.
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Neither of them said anything like the emboldened. Everything both of them say is easily accessible to document in a post; I challenge you to document your assertions with any evidence.

You should back it down dude.

You de-legitimize yourself with idiotic horse shit like this.
 
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tinselwolverine said:
Neither of them said anything like the emboldened. Everything both of them say is easily accessible to document in a post; I challenge you to document your assertions with any evidence.

You should back it down dude.

You de-legitimize yourself with idiotic horse shit like this.
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ha. he's never been legitimate.
 
tinselwolverine said:
Neither of them said anything like the emboldened. Everything both of them say is easily accessible to document in a post; I challenge you to document your assertions with any evidence.

You should back it down dude.

You de-legitimize yourself with idiotic horse shit like this.
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It's about the general theme of gloom and doom and how one side is right and the other is ill-informed, motivated by xenophobia and emotion. And you should check the record again before making those accusations. Fareed Zakaria while discussing the Brexit vote and why journalists got it wrong said that journalists are "biased toward facts", that they tend to be "better educated" and more "open to diversity" than the general population. He further stated that the pro-Brexit campaign was “entirely using emotion, conjuring horror stories” about immigrants they read in the British tabloids, which he said were Britain's version of Fox News. Maybe he didn't mention Hitler but clearly he thinks LEAVE voters are racist. He concluded his argument defending why journalists called it wrong by saying “You have to point out, when one side is using facts and the other side is pushing emotional buttons.” Fareed Zakaria is slimeball moronic elitist hack who is a know an proven serial liar and who has nothing but contempt for people who disagree with him. He has no credibility whatsoever and I stand by my comments. Stephanopolous' show this Sunday was all about the doom and gloom, how voters have screwed themselves - not a hint of the notion that this could possibly be the better for the UK - completely one-sided coverage. And he mentioned the petition for a re-vote, claiming 3mm British had signed it. Of course, plenty of folks covered that and none of them did their due diligence - turns out it was an online hack scam and most of the signatures were from west African countries. He's another biased hack - a complete sham. Again, I stand by my comments.
 
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Spartanmack said:
It's about the general theme of gloom and doom and how one side is right and the other is ill-informed, motivated by xenophobia and emotion. And you should check the record again before making those accusations. Fareed Zakaria while discussing the Brexit vote and why journalists got it wrong said that journalists are "biased toward facts", that they tend to be "better educated" and more "open to diversity" than the general population. He further stated that the pro-Brexit campaign was ?entirely using emotion, conjuring horror stories? about immigrants they read in the British tabloids, which he said were Britain's version of Fox News. Maybe he didn't mention Hitler but clearly he thinks LEAVE voters are racist. He concluded his argument defending why journalists called it wrong by saying ?You have to point out, when one side is using facts and the other side is pushing emotional buttons.? Fareed Zakaria is slimeball moronic elitist hack who is a know an proven serial liar and who has nothing but contempt for people who disagree with him. He has no credibility whatsoever and I stand by my comments. Stephanopolous' show this Sunday was all about the doom and gloom, how voters have screwed themselves - not a hint of the notion that this could possibly be the better for the UK - completely one-sided coverage. And he mentioned the petition for a re-vote, claiming 3mm British had signed it. Of course, plenty of folks covered that and none of them did their due diligence - turns out it was an online hack scam and most of the signatures were from west African countries. He's another biased hack - a complete sham. Again, I stand by my comments.
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nice completely unhinged rant.

you have a real talent... you pretend to be an educated man, but if you wanted to, you could hold your own with the real loony Glenn Beck types. you SHOULD have your own TV or radio show.

you better get moving on that though. once Trump loses in November, his followers are going to need to go somewhere for their batshit-insane-xenophobic-racist-conspiracy bullshit. the void will be filled before you know it.
 
michchamp said:
nice completely unhinged rant.

you have a real talent... you pretend to be an educated man, but if you wanted to, you could hold your own with the real loony Glenn Beck types. you SHOULD have your own TV or radio show.

you better get moving on that though. once Trump loses in November, his followers are going to need to go somewhere for their batshit-insane-xenophobic-racist-conspiracy bullshit. the void will be filled before you know it.
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once again, you have no substantive case so you revert to mischaracterizing my argument as a rant. Tinsel's post seemed like much more of a rant than mine. He asked me to document my assertions with any evidence, so I did - rather calmly by posting direct quotes. Apparently, to you, using actual quotes and stating facts to defend your statement, when requested to do so = "unhinged rant". An old, tired tactic but I guess when it's all you got, might as well use it. You're so weak - must be hard going through life as both a physical and intellectual softie. What's it like to hate yourself so much that you spend your time picking internet fights - I assume you've learned to keep your mouth shut in the real world by now.
 
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tinselwolverine said:
...apparently you don't.
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I do - you have the quotes. Was he not accusing Brexit voters of being racist? Did I attribute an actual utterance of "Hitler" to either Zakaria or Stephanopoulos? Recall that my original post mentioned idiots like Zakaria, Stephanopoulos AND THEIR ILK. It was about the general sentiment of elitist media. I never attributed specific comments to either of them or their ilk. It's at worst a slightly exaggerated but accurate characterization of their collective sentiment. They refuse to address any of the substantive pro-brexit arguments instead they chose a side and dismissed the opposition as overly emotional racist, bigots. Again, i stand by original comments.
 
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