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LOL @ Brendan Gibbons

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douglas2k said:
I know who the girl is. She has contacted me and thanked me for speaking up for her at the Board of Regents meeting. She is unwilling to go through as public a trial as this would be and she was intimidated by all the threats she was getting. She wanted the University to pursue charges through the student disciplinary hearing process, which would have been private but the University administrators told her that they would not proceed since she did not follow through on the criminal charges.
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She's okay with living in the same space as the man who raped her and the man that threatened to rape her? I would think she should be more scared of that than going through a public trial.

What types of cases are handled by the student disciplinary process? Do you have access to those records? If you find that they took on a rape charge when the rape was never taken to court, then I can see that you have a point. I doubt you will, because something of this magnitude will be handled by the legal system, not a school.

If you really want to do something, go to the local news. Go to ESPN. Go to MSNBC. Something, anything. If she's unwilling to do any of this, her truth will never come out. How would you like it if I accused you of raping my sister and my sister declines to press charges, but wants your school or employer to handle the discipline? Are they even trained in that area? Do they know what to look for? Can they make informed decisions? Do they know how to look at evidence? How fair would it be if you were kicked out of the school or fired from your job because there were untrained people that determined my sister was telling the truth.

All I'm saying is that if this is legit, both players should be out of this school, immediately. And if she had pressed charges, they would have been suspended immediately. this isn't FAMU or South West Chicken State University. If this is legit, you have to get her to do something. Not just for herself, but for any other girls that Gibbons might do this to. The longer she waits, the less likely she is to get justice.
 
Monster said:
She's okay with living in the same space as the man who raped her and the man that threatened to rape her? I would think she should be more scared of that than going through a public trial.

What types of cases are handled by the student disciplinary process? Do you have access to those records? If you find that they took on a rape charge when the rape was never taken to court, then I can see that you have a point. I doubt you will, because something of this magnitude will be handled by the legal system, not a school.

If you really want to do something, go to the local news. Go to ESPN. Go to MSNBC. Something, anything. If she's unwilling to do any of this, her truth will never come out. How would you like it if I accused you of raping my sister and my sister declines to press charges, but wants your school or employer to handle the discipline? Are they even trained in that area? Do they know what to look for? Can they make informed decisions? Do they know how to look at evidence? How fair would it be if you were kicked out of the school or fired from your job because there were untrained people that determined my sister was telling the truth.

All I'm saying is that if this is legit, both players should be out of this school, immediately. And if she had pressed charges, they would have been suspended immediately. this isn't FAMU or South West Chicken State University. If this is legit, you have to get her to do something. Not just for herself, but for any other girls that Gibbons might do this to. The longer she waits, the less likely she is to get justice.
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Under federal regulations, the University must be able to handle these cases, independent of the criminal system. If they do not do this to the satisfaction of the Dept. of Edcuation, all of their federal funding can be withdrawn.
 
douglas2k said:
Under federal regulations, the University must be able to handle these cases, independent of the criminal system. If they do not do this to the satisfaction of the Dept. of Edcuation, all of their federal funding can be withdrawn.
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From what i understand, they are required to report it. I don't believe they have an obligation to prosecute him if no charges were pressed. Regardless, your friend has to come forward.
 
Monster said:
From what i understand, they are required to report it. I don't believe they have an obligation to prosecute him if no charges were pressed. Regardless, your friend has to come forward.
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Your understanding is incorrect. The University is rolling out its new policies and procedures for just that purpose, this fall. They are required under Title IX to protect students from sexual harrassment and sexual assault. The student disciplinary process is part of that protection.
 
I call bullshit, too. Michigan would have no problem kicking a freshman kicker that sucked at the time off the team.

I'm going to say this is a case where a couple college co-eds had sex, which any sex can cause vaginal tearing, like maybe if they r drunk. The girl woke up feeling used and decided to cry 'rape,' but not very loudly. Then a few days later dropped it.

In this country, we go by a simple adage, "innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law,' which is considerably more than has been presented here by his 2 accusers.

"well, something happened. I don't know what, but something!"
 
hungry said:
I call bullshit, too. Michigan would have no problem kicking a freshman kicker that sucked at the time off the team.

I'm going to say this is a case where a couple college co-eds had sex, which any sex can cause vaginal tearing, like maybe if they r drunk. The girl woke up feeling used and decided to cry 'rape,' but not very loudly. Then a few days later dropped it.

In this country, we go by a simple adage, "innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law,' which is considerably more than has been presented here by his 2 accusers.

"well, something happened. I don't know what, but something!"
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Yours is the kind of attitude that keeps more women from reporting rape, particularly when there is a great difference in power between the perpetrator and the victim.

She didn't "wake up" and report it. She left the fraternity house immediately and reported it to the police immediately. She had a rape exam immediately.

If you were on the jury, you would ignore the vaginal tearing and the bruises on her arm (where he was holding her down). There would never be enough proof for you.
 
I don't think there has to be legal repercussions for the football coach or school to take action. It's extremely difficult to design a legal system that gets it right, but for the football coach, it just boils down to what he believes. I would hope, that if RR or Hoke thought this happened there would be repercussions. There are certain attitudes that just aren't welcome. It's not about football, you just can't coach or work alongside of someone that would do these things. It's a personal thing. Think about having this information if you managed some random business and you had an employee that you think got away with something like this. Hailhail would find a reason to fire him.

School discipline is more difficult and requires more discussion like ML's website (add an "s" to the end of the link, FYI)
 
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douglas2k said:
Under federal regulations, the University must be able to handle these cases, independent of the criminal system. If they do not do this to the satisfaction of the Dept. of Edcuation, all of their federal funding can be withdrawn.
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there are a number of schools having trouble with this very issue right now, for failing to even investigate rapes/sex assaults on campus. USC, Notre Dame, UNC-Chapel Hill come to mind.

not sure what you mean by "handle... independent of the criminal system." the university can't charge people with crimes. they can investigate and kick them out of school, but they can't really do anything more than that.
 
michchamp said:
there are a number of schools having trouble with this very issue right now, for failing to even investigate rapes/sex assaults on campus. USC, Notre Dame, UNC-Chapel Hill come to mind.

not sure what you mean by "handle... independent of the criminal system." the university can't charge people with crimes. they can investigate and kick them out of school, but they can't really do anything more than that.
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You are right. The maximum penalty for a rape that the school can levy is expulsion. That is why the Dept. of Education said in their guidelines that the level of proof should be that required in a civil trial "preponderence of the evidence" and not that required in a criminal trial "beyond a reasonable doubt".

By independent they meant that the school does not have to rely upon a criminal conviction to take actions to protect the victim or discipline the perpetrator. Some schools, in the past, have said that they cannot take any action until the criminal prosecution is over.
 
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There's an outside chance the coached did their parts. Maybe RR and Hoke do believe Gibbons side of things. Maybe Lewan said was angry because he fully believes Gibbons and he received some form of counseling and performed some service or something and the coach believes he understands now the seriousness of intimidating potential victims, even if you don't believe them. We don't have the girl's reason for dropping the charges, maybe she did misrepresent the details in the immediate aftermath and think better of it later; some people bruise very easily.

But from the looks of it, she dropped the charges because she was intimidated and the police failed to get enough evidence to go any further with it and the university is sitting on a policy to justify not investigating on their own.
 
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redandguilty said:
...

But from the looks of it, she dropped the charges because she was intimidated and the police failed to get enough evidence to go any further with it and the university is sitting on a policy to justify not investigating on their own.
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I agree. from our own peanut gallery view of the events, based on what we're read here it's troubling. I can't just dismiss it out of hand as some are, because assuming that letter posted from the retired professor is legit, he's publicly going on the record, using his name, and putting his own reputation behind it.

since it doesn't appear the University is going to do anything further about it, I just have to hold my nose whenever I see Gibbons on the field and hope all concerned have emerged better people from this, wouldn't do something like it again, and would speak out if ever confronted by the same sort of thing in the future.

edit: the only thing we don't know is whether the intimidation came from other people, or from the stress and ordeal of pressing charges itself. for those that don't know... it's not normally just a matter of telling a couple cops what happened and then going about your business. the accused has a right to confront his accuser in court or if the accuser is unavailable, at least attacking their reputation, the evidence, and the circumstances. it should be no wonder that many women would rather just move on with their lives instead of enduring a public ordeal after an assault. a lot of rapes and sexual assaults go unreported, or un-charged for this reason alone.
 
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douglas2k said:
Yours is the kind of attitude that keeps more women from reporting rape, particularly when there is a great difference in power between the perpetrator and the victim.

She didn't "wake up" and report it. She left the fraternity house immediately and reported it to the police immediately. She had a rape exam immediately.

If you were on the jury, you would ignore the vaginal tearing and the bruises on her arm (where he was holding her down). There would never be enough proof for you.
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Nope, i'd believe it IF it went to trial. This didn't even go to trial. My attitude is not what is holding this woman back. If i were selected to be on the jury, I would look at the evidence and make a judgement.

There was no trial here. He has not been found guilty. This is America
 
Someone just re-started this conversation on MGoBlog. So who's keep_em_honest?
 
I wish there was a way to keep the victim's name completely private in these situations. It could really help in lessening the amount of assaults that go unreported or uncharged. Keeping the victim from facing the accused face to face in court would also help, but I doubt that is feasible.

In this situation, two people know exactly what happened. That's it. The rest of us just have to come to our own conclusions from the information that has been presented.
 
There were a couple MSU basketball players accused of csc a few years ago. Some people made a stink of it, said Izzo and MSU covered it up. If these women don't prerss charges, what can the CRJ system and the Universitys do ? I feel for the women if this happened AND the Universities are covering it up or just looking the other way. The fact is, if these women have been victimized, they need to come forward and make sure this doesn't happen again. I know, easier said than done when you are being threatened, but if they made a big deal of this, especially with a high profile program like Michigan, I would expect many womens rights groups to offer their support, and I'm quite sure Michigan or any other University fearing public negativity would take immediate action.

There does appear to be evidence, but what do we really know ? If Gibbons didn't do this, I feel for him. If he did, I hope he gets asshole cancer.
 
On Michigan's timeline ID'd in another thread, it champions the accomplishment of eliminating "Hours".

"In 1967-68, the rules of sex-segregated dorm life came tumbling down, and students entered a new era of freedom."

A "breakthrough" indeed. Apparently.
 
Disturbing. The girl left school for 2 months, doubt she does that without a reason.

I can speak from personal experience that the culture at any big time university is to protect the players and the program at all costs. When I was a student at State, I knew some of the athletes and friends of athletes, the stuff you hear about that gets swept under the rug is a shame. The pressure on the victims to not press charges is immense. You see it all the time, where an incident happens and sounds awful, but then as the days and weeks go by, somehow, 9 out of 10 times the victims' stories change. She was punched in the face turns to a mild slap, he broke in and stole my game console turns to he's a friend and he was just borrowing it. The fact that this girl was obviously traumatized by the events and that she was threatened with physical harm in public makes this especially sickening. 4 years later, it's still a dispicable series of events.

Hope it's not true. Why would it be just coming out now though? The timing seems a little dubious.
 
johnny2x2x said:
Disturbing. The girl left school for 2 months, doubt she does that without a reason.

I can speak from personal experience that the culture at any big time university is to protect the players and the program at all costs. When I was a student at State, I knew some of the athletes and friends of athletes, the stuff you hear about that gets swept under the rug is a shame. The pressure on the victims to not press charges is immense. You see it all the time, where an incident happens and sounds awful, but then as the days and weeks go by, somehow, 9 out of 10 times the victims' stories change. She was punched in the face turns to a mild slap, he broke in and stole my game console turns to he's a friend and he was just borrowing it. The fact that this girl was obviously traumatized by the events and that she was threatened with physical harm in public makes this especially sickening. 4 years later, it's still a dispicable series of events.

Hope it's not true. Why would it be just coming out now though? The timing seems a little dubious.
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There were reports on it back when it happened, but it seems Douglas Smith has just decided to start an internet crusade now. If this topic is so important to him, he should have done this from the get go and not four years later. The timing of his offers up speculation to ulterior motives.
 
johnny2x2x said:
Hope it's not true. Why would it be just coming out now though? The timing seems a little dubious.
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Apparently, it pops up every now and then at MGoBlog and a new wave of people get exposed to it. It was in the news without names back when it happened while the names were tied to it on the message boards.

About the timing of the website, couldn't tell you, but the guy running it has been persistent in pursuing this. It looks like a continuous effort to address it.
 
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