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Lions anti-homer thought processes

Statistically, a team's record in close games is overall neutral. Teams don't tend to play better or worse in these games consistently. The team was terrible in these games the last two years, but had/have a largely positive record in those games this year and 2011 (see a pattern?).

Stafford isn't learning to win or making better decisions at the end of games any more than he's just getting lucky. Stafford leading comebacks these last two games is great for the record, but tells us nothing particularly special about him. The game is 4 quarters long, and him playing great for one or two quarters doesn't negate when he plays terribly for half the game. Stafford is a very average QB, which is a perfectly fine for the current Lions. Unlike previous years we don't need to win shootouts every game. But it also means that relying on Stafford for extended stretches just doesn't work.
 
sggatecl said:
Trade deadline passed, I sure hope fans aren't that ignorant.
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We've got fans that think every mistake Stafford makes is not actually his fault, so, would you really be surprised if we had fans like that on this board?
 
kdp1980 said:
We've got fans that think every mistake Stafford makes is not actually his fault, so, would you really be surprised if we had fans like that on this board?
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I watch the games. He does have some that are his fault. It's just way less than you guys think. You guys think he doesn't make any good passes during wins and give full credit to the WR even when Stafford is doing his job.
 
LKP said:
I watch the games. He does have some that are his fault. It's just way less than you guys think. You guys think he doesn't make any good passes during wins and give full credit to the WR even when Stafford is doing his job.
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16th in total yards and 24th in scoring. bad job Stafford and Lombardi.
 
LKP said:
I watch the games. He does have some that are his fault. It's just way less than you guys think. You guys think he doesn't make any good passes during wins and give full credit to the WR even when Stafford is doing his job.
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How did Stafford play down the stretch last year, LKP?
 
I wait to judge Staff, till he has a decent Oline and a healthy CJ, EBron, Bush, and Fauria
 
zoombabyzoom said:
I wait to judge Staff, till he has a decent Oline and a healthy CJ, EBron, Bush, and Fauria
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The only problem with waiting till that happens is a truly elite qb doesnt need a perfect storm of events to take place to play great.
 
zoombabyzoom said:
I wait to judge Staff, till he has a decent Oline and a healthy CJ, EBron, Bush, and Fauria
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this year he has a #1 defense and a wr on pace for 110 catches and 1600 yds....still excuses

last year he had a great oline and great running game....still excuses

first 2 years he was injured....excuses

excuses this year...excuses that year....excuses excuses excuses\

keep waiting and the guys career is going to be over and youll still be waiting....
 
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atxlion82 said:
The only problem with waiting till that happens is a truly elite qb doesnt need a perfect storm of events to take place to play great.
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But if all that can get him top 5 or so stats I'll take it. We are stuck with him for a few more years. Mayhew has realized he needs an abudence of talent around him to play at a high level. We just need him to be a game manager, hopefully he can become that.
 
mhughes0021 said:
this year he has a #1 defense and a wr on pace for 110 catches and 1600 yds....still excuses

last year he had a great oline and great running game....still excuses

first 2 years he was injured....excuses

excuses this year...excuses that year....excuses excuses excuses\

keep waiting and the guys career is going to be over and youll still be waiting....
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You say excuses, but many other top QBs routinely have multiple things going for them.

Brady - Excellent WR corps for most of his career, defense some years, good to great run game usually, and same coaching staff and system.

Peyton Manning - Great offensive line, WR corps, same coaching staff mostly and system. Run game off and on...defense usually subpar.

Aaron Rodgers - Run game off and on, defense off and on. Great receiving core and offensive line usually hurt...and coaching staff and system the same.

Drew Brees - Same system, coaching staff every year. WR Corps golden. Defense more poor than good, offensive line usually good, and running game pretty good.

These are probably the top 4 QBs of the last decade. Lets now give them the Stafford "excuses"

For a real life example. Tom Brady last year. Sure he had the coaching staff and the system that has always been there. Defense actually gave up 3 less pts per game than in 2012, but it still was a poor defense. And had a top 10 run offense. But, his WR corps were subpar and injury plagued. His offensive line played poorly and had injuries. He in return had a very "stafford type" season. His accuracy dipped 5%, and his QB rating dropped about 8-13 points down to the mid to upper 80s.

Now this may not be an actual phenomena but it could be.

Take Aaron Rodgers. Take away Jordy Nelson and Cobb...I think he may do worse. Just a thought.

The main question with Stafford and these "excuses" is when has he had a full year where he had at least 3 of the following

- A good Coaching Staff and offensive system that has been in place for a number of years.
- At least two real good receiving options that play the whole year
- A top 10 Running Game
- A top 10 Defense
- A good offensive line that aren't plagued by injuries.

Because looking at the better QBs in the league, they seem to need at least 3 of these things to do well.
 
zoombabyzoom said:
You say excuses, but many other top QBs routinely have multiple things going for them.

Brady - Excellent WR corps for most of his career, defense some years, good to great run game usually, and same coaching staff and system.

Peyton Manning - Great offensive line, WR corps, same coaching staff mostly and system. Run game off and on...defense usually subpar.

Aaron Rodgers - Run game off and on, defense off and on. Great receiving core and offensive line usually hurt...and coaching staff and system the same.

Drew Brees - Same system, coaching staff every year. WR Corps golden. Defense more poor than good, offensive line usually good, and running game pretty good.

These are probably the top 4 QBs of the last decade. Lets now give them the Stafford "excuses"

For a real life example. Tom Brady last year. Sure he had the coaching staff and the system that has always been there. Defense actually gave up 3 less pts per game than in 2012, but it still was a poor defense. And had a top 10 run offense. But, his WR corps were subpar and injury plagued. His offensive line played poorly and had injuries. He in return had a very "stafford type" season. His accuracy dipped 5%, and his QB rating dropped about 8-13 points down to the mid to upper 80s.

Now this may not be an actual phenomena but it could be.

Take Aaron Rodgers. Take away Jordy Nelson and Cobb...I think he may do worse. Just a thought.

The main question with Stafford and these "excuses" is when has he had a full year where he had at least 3 of the following

- A good Coaching Staff and offensive system that has been in place for a number of years.
- At least two real good receiving options that play the whole year
- A top 10 Running Game
- A top 10 Defense
- A good offensive line that aren't plagued by injuries.

Because looking at the better QBs in the league, they seem to need at least 3 of these things to do well.
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the only problem I have with your post is every example you brought up are guys that still make it deep into the playoffs what seems like every year. why? because they are good enough to overcome the obstacles you listed. Indy is a perfect example. peytons indy had Caldwell as a coach...meh. peyton goes down its 2 win team. luck inherits the team with an awful oline, blah coach and average to bad defense....boom perennial playoff contenders. Your last paragraph youre actually agreeing with all us "anti homers"...we keep saying Stafford needs a lot of those things to be successful.....you are saying the same....which makes him pretty average. A lot of qbs in the league would lead teams to fairly decent records if they had all those criteria you mentioned. We don't have those things consistently cause we have mayhew....but that's another topic.
 
mhughes0021 said:
16th in total yards and 24th in scoring. bad job Stafford and Lombardi.
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Total yards is the run game and oline fault. 24 sacks and no holes

8th in pass yards and 10 missed field goals. Stafford doing well
 
mhughes0021 said:
the only problem I have with your post is every example you brought up are guys that still make it deep into the playoffs what seems like every year. why? because they are good enough to overcome the obstacles you listed. Indy is a perfect example. peytons indy had Caldwell as a coach...meh. peyton goes down its 2 win team. luck inherits the team with an awful oline, blah coach and average to bad defense....boom perennial playoff contenders. Your last paragraph youre actually agreeing with all us "anti homers"...we keep saying Stafford needs a lot of those things to be successful.....you are saying the same....which makes him pretty average. A lot of qbs in the league would lead teams to fairly decent records if they had all those criteria you mentioned. We don't have those things consistently cause we have mayhew....but that's another topic.
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Yeah those teams do make it deep because they have those key factors in their favor. Meaning 3 of more. Luck is pretty good you think I take it. Well since you think his first two years were so good... his average QB rating for those two years was 81. Thats so good, meanwhile Staffords average career rating is much higher. But, how about Luck this year? Same coaching staff and system in place, multiple weapons, and their offensive line has protected Luck very well (allowing the 9th fewest sacks in the NFL). Sure the running game is shaky and so is the defense but for the first time in his Career he has 3 of those factors working for him. And his QB rating jumped to 99+ this year. Amazing how that works.
 
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LKP said:
Total yards is the run game and oline fault. 24 sacks and no holes

8th in pass yards and 10 missed field goals. Stafford doing well
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hes 5th in yards....hes always good at yards cause hes 5th in attempts.

You guys ar epraising him for being up in comp % this year to 61. yay....that makes him ranked 23rd. yippie.

14th in tds. only 8 worse than him in ints.

sacked the most in the league....yes he gets some of the blame.

22nd in qb rating behind guys like ryan Fitzpatrick, Austin davis and brain hoyer.

16th in qbr.

and like you said yourself....qbr is a joke and qb rating is more accurate. So hes closer to the 22nd best qb than he is the 16th according to you.

....bad job Stafford.
 
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Oline kickers and running game screwing him. Stafford is a good qb. And give me calvin back

Stafford does well making the most out of bad down and distances and no time to throw
 
And Stafford has attempts because he gets first downs. They put the ball in his hands. He moves the ball. Good player
 
zoombabyzoom said:
Yeah those teams do make it deep because they have those key factors in their favor. Meaning 3 of more. Luck is pretty good you think I take it. Well since you think his first two years were so good... his average QB rating for those two years was 81. Thats so good, meanwhile Staffords average career rating is much higher. But, how about Luck this year? Same coaching staff and system in place, multiple weapons, and their offensive line has protected Luck very well (allowing the 9th fewest sacks in the NFL). Sure the running game is shaky and so is the defense but for the first time in his Career he has 3 of those factors working for him. And his QB rating jumped to 99+ this year. Amazing how that works.
Click to expand...

how do you explain Rodgers continually winning the division with injured WRs, awful oline, and decimated defenses?

Peyton with decimated olines, bad coaching and poor defenses. The only thing he has going for him is healthy WRs.

Brady with bad defenses the past couple years and losing his top 8 targets.

And sure luck hasn't had the best qb rating....but he threw 10 less INTs than Stafford last year and again took his team into the playoffs with like Donald brown as a rb and his #1 wr out for the year with a blown up knee. So again...hes overcoming those things that we always use as an excuse for Stafford.
 
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