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Detroit Tigers 2015-2016 offseason calendar

That doesn't mean he can't improve. He's a hard worker. Al Kaline said he(McCann) thought he had good leadership qualites.

He's young & can improve. Framing pitches is nothing more than tricking the umpire to call a pitch a ball a strike. An umpire should watch where the ball crosses the plate,not where It's caught.
 
He's young & can improve. Framing pitches is nothing more than tricking the umpire to call a pitch a ball a strike. An umpire should watch where the ball crosses the plate,not where It's caught.

It's something you learn in the minors. Its something you learn before 25-26 years of age.

Not every catcher is suppose to be good at it. Regardless of what the umpire should or shouldn't be looking at, it's part of the game. It wasn't a coincidence that McCann gave up twice the HR total for Sanchez per/G as Avila.

I'm not going to say it's 100% not learnable at his age but he should have gotten that down sooner.
 
And the reason for this discussion always starts with "McCann had a pretty good season." Sorry, but defense counts too, batting against RHP could too. If you have a belief he can get better that's fine but it doesn't change the fact he wasn't good this season..
 
McCann vs. RH pitching last year .247/.277/.332/.609

Avila vs RH pitching last year .203/.355/.311/.666

Neither one was any good but McCann was worse!
 
He's young & can improve. Framing pitches is nothing more than tricking the umpire to call a pitch a ball a strike. An umpire should watch where the ball crosses the plate,not where It's caught.


At what age is someone no longer considered young in your mind?

If we were talking about under 24, then you can make that leap. At 25, the overwhelmingly majority ballplayers are what they are. History has proven that. Science says the frontal lobe fully develops by 25.

Yes, young players can be taught, but most often it is done in the minors where the ramifications aren't as dire. Occasionally (rare exceptions), a Luis Gonzalez can go to an extreme hitter's park and alter their stance and become an All Star. He was already a decent player to begin with.

When do players begin organized ball? Little League maybe? 12-13 years old? After doing something the same way for half their life, you think it is easy to change?

Most people put on either their left sock/shoe first, then the right, or vice versa. They have done it that way since they can remember. Try changing. It will take a lot of thought and effort. And you have to be vigilant. Otherwise, you will revert back to the way that was most comfortable. Hence why coaches are important.

You really want a player to have "a lot of thought and effort" at catching at the MLB level and also focus on his sub par hitting and then think he is going to succeed?
 
At what age is someone no longer considered young in your mind?

If we were talking about under 24, then you can make that leap. At 25, the overwhelmingly majority ballplayers are what they are. History has proven that. Science says the frontal lobe fully develops by 25.

Yes, young players can be taught, but most often it is done in the minors where the ramifications aren't as dire. Occasionally (rare exceptions), a Luis Gonzalez can go to an extreme hitter's park and alter their stance and become an All Star. He was already a decent player to begin with.

When do players begin organized ball? Little League maybe? 12-13 years old? After doing something the same way for half their life, you think it is easy to change?

Most people put on either their left sock/shoe first, then the right, or vice versa. They have done it that way since they can remember. Try changing. It will take a lot of thought and effort. And you have to be vigilant. Otherwise, you will revert back to the way that was most comfortable. Hence why coaches are important.

You really want a player to have "a lot of thought and effort" at catching at the MLB level and also focus on his sub par hitting and then think he is going to succeed?

I think his framing is probably the one thing that will be hard to change. His biggest problem is his pitch selection / game calling which should be the easiest thing to change. This is 100% mental...knowing the batters and his own pitchers. This isn't something that should be habitual at this point...it should be different for every batter they face and every pitcher he catches. Maybe he doesn't have the mental capacity to do this...I'm not sure.
 
McCann vs. RH pitching last year .247/.277/.332/.609

Avila vs RH pitching last year .203/.355/.311/.666

Neither one was any good but McCann was worse!

wRC+ vs RHP (38 MLB catchers had at least 180 PAs)

18. Avila 94
31. McCann 64

Those 30 runs are huge and equates to at least 3 wins.

McCann, of those 38, had the 2nd to the worst walk rate. He was also 34th of 38 in the number of balls hit hard.

Avila, of those 38 MLB catchers, has the 2nd highest line drive rate and 6th in number of balls hit hard. Meaning, he was very unlucky in 2015.
 
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I think his framing is probably the one thing that will be hard to change. His biggest problem is his pitch selection / game calling which should be the easiest thing to change. This is 100% mental...knowing the batters and his own pitchers. This isn't something that should be habitual at this point...it should be different for every batter they face and every pitcher he catches. Maybe he doesn't have the mental capacity to do this...I'm not sure.


I was told Ausmus was calling the pitches when he caught.
 
wRC+ Away (38 MLB catchers had at least 180 PAs)

18. Avila 94
31. McCann 64

Those 30 runs are huge and equates to at least 3 wins.

McCann, of those 38, had the 2nd to the worst walk rate. He was also 34th of 38 in the number of balls hit hard.

Avila, of those 38 MLB catchers, has the 2nd highest line drive rate and 6th in number of balls hit hard. Meaning, he was very unlucky in 2015.

overall for 2015

McCann 85
Avila 83
 
overall for 2015

McCann 85
Avila 83


McCann's 149 wRC+ vs LHP is unsustainable/unrepeatable. Meaning his overall stats are based on "luck" .386 BABIP?

Avila, as pointed out, hit line drives and hard hit balls in 2015, but didn't have the stats to show for it. He was "unlucky" and screams of rebound in 2016. .278 BABIP when compared to his line drive rate and hard hit balls is hard to explain other than the shift used against him and bad luck.

Bottom line...even if McCann's overall numbers were better than Avila's in 2015, it hardly makes a case that he is the better player. The fact remains, that 85 wRC+ is well below average. McCann's numbers very well might regress in 2016, where Avila's might very well increase.
 
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This is turning in to Nick Castellanos version 2.0

How many people were begging the Tigers to "bring the kid up" in 2013? He was super-hyped (super-over-hyped) because he was #1 in the Tigers system, which is not that much of an accomplishment really considering the sad state of our farm system.

So when Nicky boy finally got his big chance in 2014, he was mediocre hitting (that's being generous) and dismal at fielding. Everyone said; "but he's young, he'll get better" and now after 2 full seasons he is probably the worst starting 3B in MLB.

McCann is just this years version of Castellanos, over-hyped because he's not named Avila (This is probably the biggest reason) and we saw he can hit LHP. RHP not so much, his pitch calling/framing leaves much to be desired. If you're a C that is the cornerstone people. A DH needs to hit, and a C needs to be good if not great behind the plate. McCann is not good. He throws runners out pretty well, that's nice but really not that important in the long run.

People will keep on making excuses for him based on his age, he's a rookie, etc. He simply does not have the tools to be an everyday catcher, just like Castellanos does not have the tools to be an everyday 3B. But knowing the Tigers (who let Inge play there forever) both of these guys will get the starting jobs next year, and people will still be making excuses and saying that they are going to improve 5 years from now.
 
I'm glad about the advanced analysis part and that he wants to do more.. Still bumming we didn't get a new manager.
 
McCann's 149 wRC+ vs LHP is unsustainable/unrepeatable. Meaning his overall stats are based on "luck" .386 BABIP?

Avila, as pointed out, hit line drives and hard hit balls in 2015, but didn't have the stats to show for it. He was "unlucky" and screams of rebound in 2016. .278 BABIP when compared to his line drive rate and hard hit balls is hard to explain other than the shift used against him and bad luck.

Bottom line...even if McCann's overall numbers were better than Avila's in 2015, it hardly makes a case that he is the better player. The fact remains, that 85 wRC+ is well below average. McCann's numbers very well might regress in 2016, where Avila's might very well increase.

I wasn't saying he was better...just very similar last year.
 
I think his framing is probably the one thing that will be hard to change. His biggest problem is his pitch selection / game calling which should be the easiest thing to change. This is 100% mental...knowing the batters and his own pitchers. This isn't something that should be habitual at this point...it should be different for every batter they face and every pitcher he catches. Maybe he doesn't have the mental capacity to do this...I'm not sure.

He's young enough to learn if he's willing to work at it. If he doesn't work out,then they will have to find somebody else. He's got the arm strength. Ausmus will work with him as long as he's still with the tigers, which might not be long.
 
He's young enough to learn if he's willing to work at it. If he doesn't work out,then they will have to find somebody else. He's got the arm strength. Ausmus will work with him as long as he's still with the tigers, which might not be long.

What if he was already working as hard as he could in 2015?

There is no shred of evidence to most of what you just posted. It is speculation, except the strong arm. He isn't young by baseball standards. We have no clue what his work ethic is and even if he already was working on this skills. Does that mean he didn't work the last 5 years? What if 2015 he worked as hard as possible and this was the result? Do you know that not to be the case? Again, speculation.

Ausmus working with him is a difference maker? Really? I would think he learned more from Alex working with him.


Having a strong arm is his only redeeming quality. And that he hits lefties (very small part). Otherwise, he has to work on all other aspects of his game in order to make it more than 5 years in the bigs.

His .297 OBP was worst on the team of the 13 players with at least 200 PAs. It is almost impossible for a player to change the walk rate after the age of 24. Working hard has nothing to do with it. Plate Discipline declines for most players from their minor league numbers. His walk rate in the minors was 19.0 PA/BB. Most players with that walk rate from the minors do not last in the majors. Not speculation, but historical fact. He walk rate of 26.6 PA/BB is inline of what you would expect moving from the minors to the majors. Again, this a skill you cannot change overnight, let alone in one year, if ever past 25.

214 MLB Players with 300 PAs against RHP in 2015 (107 would be median)

3. M. Cabrera .434
5. P. Fielder .416
13. C. Granderson .388
59. J. Peralta .359
75. I. Kinsler .341 OBP
82. Y. Cespedes .338 OBP
90. J.D. Martinez .335 OBP
106. Gose .330 OBP

116. C. Maybin .323 OBP
123. Iglesias .320 OBP

152. E. Suarez .308 OBP

168. A. Jackson .299 OBP
172. A. Garcia .297 OBP
177. T. Hunter .294 OBP

197. J. McCann .277 OBP
198. N. Castellanos .277 OBP
199. V. Martinez .276 OBP
214. O. Infante .234 OBP


Pitch framing and setting up for each pitch are skills and become habits. A catcher cannot think about it, it has to be instinctual. Again, at age 25, there is no evidence he can improve and if he is allowed to "work on them", let him do it in the minors where it is supposed to be done. Learning to this degree at the MLB level is not fair to the team or specifically, the pitchers. Statistics will show our pitches had more home runs hit when McCann caught them than when Ausmus caught them. It is caused by setting up too early or by bad pitch calling. If you are allowing McCann to learn at the MLB level in 2016, expect our pitching to suck again in 2016. McCann does not improve our pitching, he makes it worse. Fact.

Game calling. It is said he cannot call a good game and that Ausmus called the pitches for him in 2015. Not sure who did the calling in 2015, but in either case it sucked. And he isn't off the hook if Ausmus called the games. At some point, he will need to call games. Now you want him to work on that as well?
 
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