biggunsbob said:

Tomorrow..

Win WS or bust time!!!!!!!!!!

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjzXlRzM6PQ

Its funny in the game threads, when the Tigers are winning, it stays mostly calm and collected, with much the same members posting during the entire game.

BUT...when they are losing late, suddenly the thread blows up mainly from members vent-posting who more infrequently post in them.

turok said:

Its funny in the game threads, when the Tigers are winning, it stays mostly calm and collected, with much the same members posting during the entire game.

BUT...when they are losing late, suddenly the thread blows up mainly from members vent-posting who more infrequently post in them.

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I don't see it that way. I've been mainly staying away, mostly because it's just a constant bitch fest from the 2nd inning on. If the Tigers do get a lead, let say 4-0 after two, the other teams gets their first two men on in the third - and suddenly they're bitching because Leyland didn't have anyone warmed up our why was he still in..

God forbid we're down 2-0 after five. Then it's suddenly "we lost this game".

It isn't the losing per se, it is how they lose (ala Lions, plus Pistons and Redwings of late).

Run themselves out of innings.

First pitch swinging, when the opposing pitcher hasn't thrown any recent strikes.

Not hitting after the 5th or 6th innngs

Overthrow the bases/don't hit the cut off man

etc,etc


Personally speaking, as long as there is an obvious effort and they play the game smart, I can deal with the losses. It is when there is lack of hustle/urgency and they do not play smart is when I get frustrated.

When teams are winning, it is easier to overlook these things. When they aren't, well...it tends to magnify the defects.

I tend to put blame on players 9 times out of 10 before managers. I'm no Leyland lover but the amount of hate that guy got was unreal. I don't see that changing regardless of who the manager is.

turok said:

Its funny in the game threads, when the Tigers are winning, it stays mostly calm and collected, with much the same members posting during the entire game.

BUT...when they are losing late, suddenly the thread blows up mainly from members vent-posting who more infrequently post in them.

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same way, when I coached, when you win, no one says jack shit, but lose a couple in a row and they all come out.

This team is still mainly Leyland's and DD's. How it is manages is mainly the players that Ausmus has to work with. Which many have said they do not think the team will be as good as last year team. Imo it's not how good the Tigers will be. It's how much other teams have improved. IE the Rangers are going to be better than the Tigers. And really winning the Division is not winning in the playoffs. Bottom line our ROOK better be better than anyone thinks. Which IDT that's going to happen. Imo the Tigers have down graded more than they have broke even or replaced. Middle BULLPEN is going to be the problem! And no manager really can fix that!

Really I was never hated Leyland. Just some of the things he did in game drove me up the wall. But really the real fact was/is that the supporting players, bench/backup and too many relief's pitchers do not get the job done when called upon. IE the Tigers have too much money in too few of players imo. There not enough money for support. And really this team is getting too top heavy. But I really do not how to fix it and keep the players I like either. And there is any managers real problem. Unless the Tigers win the series no managers can/could get it right this season.

But IMO Tigers still have the starting pitching to make a run at the series. B/C once you get to the playoffs PITCHING is the thing that can get you the wins. And there a team only has to stay ONE game above .500 to advance.

turok said:

Its funny in the game threads, when the Tigers are winning, it stays mostly calm and collected, with much the same members posting during the entire game.

BUT...when they are losing late, suddenly the thread blows up mainly from members vent-posting who more infrequently post in them.

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yep, we get irritated, all of us to varying degrees.

Rebbiv said:

It isn't the losing per se, it is how they lose (ala Lions, plus Pistons and Redwings of late).

Run themselves out of innings.

First pitch swinging, when the opposing pitcher hasn't thrown any recent strikes.

Not hitting after the 5th or 6th innngs

Overthrow the bases/don't hit the cut off man

etc,etc


Personally speaking, as long as there is an obvious effort and they play the game smart, I can deal with the losses. It is when there is lack of hustle/urgency and they do not play smart is when I get frustrated.

When teams are winning, it is easier to overlook these things. When they aren't, well...it tends to magnify the defects.

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I agree with this too.

As we all know, contending teams will invariably win 50 and lose 50, regardless of how they perform.

So then they need to win roughly 3/5 of their remaining 62 games to clinch a DT or WC. Lots of losses to deal with, anyway.

NBA and NHL have ~50% and the NFL, ~10% of MLB's regular season total of 162 games, making wins more crucial for each GP, especially in the NFL.

sggatecl said:

I tend to put blame on players 9 times out of 10 before managers. I'm no Leyland lover but the amount of hate that guy got was unreal. I don't see that changing regardless of who the manager is.

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I agree.

I defended Leyland a lot, not because I particularly liked him, but because the hate he got and people screaming for a guy who was WINNING to be fired was moronic at times. The fact is I got just as irritated by some things he did as anyone, but nothing he EVER did would have warranted him getting fired.

I'll give him plenty of time. I, like some others, didn't have a problem with Leyland. We had some really good players and then a bunch of 4A players...guys who don't get it done when called upon. And our bull pen was pretty shaky at best. He can't pitch the same 2 or 3 guys every night.

I know if I watched every single game of any other team in the league I'd have extremely similar complaints of the way that team is managed.

Thumb said:

I agree.

I defended Leyland a lot, not because I particularly liked him, but because the hate he got and people screaming for a guy who was WINNING to be fired was moronic at times. The fact is I got just as irritated by some things he did as anyone, but nothing he EVER did would have warranted him getting fired.

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it seems like tiger fans need their scapegoat that they can blame all losses on, either the manager or a whilpping boy type player, like raburn, inge, etc. the funny thing is they don't get on Cabby if he goes 0-4, i know he's a stud but he also makes 20+ mil, it makes more sense to be upset with him than a fringe major leaguer that has a bad game

Sbee said:

it seems like tiger fans need their scapegoat that they can blame all losses on, either the manager or a whilpping boy type player, like raburn, inge, etc. the funny thing is they don't get on Cabby if he goes 0-4, i know he's a stud but he also makes 20+ mil, it makes more sense to be upset with him than a fringe major leaguer that has a bad game

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You think it's just Tigers fans? I would suspect during a season most teams fans act the same way. Ask NYY fans how they react when they don't win a WS.

The other part, one guys a future HOF who we wouldn't be in the situation we were in without him, the others are ones who has letdown after letdown. Plus with Inge, he's an idiot.

Mitchrapp said:

You think it's just Tigers fans? I would suspect during a season most teams fans act the same way. Ask NYY fans how they react when they don't win a WS.

The other part, one guys a future HOF who we wouldn't be in the situation we were in without him, the others are ones who has letdown after letdown. Plus with Inge, he's an idiot.

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I agree about other fan bases. I'm sure if you went to any message board for other teams they would have an equal amount of second guessing of thier manager.

When it comes to holding individual players accountable I agree with Sbee. I hold the higher paid / superstars to a higher standard. They are being paid to be the best and to carry the team. I expect more out of JV and Miggy than Porcello and Avila.

tomdalton22 said:

I agree about other fan bases. I'm sure if you went to any message board for other teams they would have an equal amount of second guessing of thier manager.

When it comes to holding individual players accountable I agree with Sbee. I hold the higher paid / superstars to a higher standard. They are being paid to be the best and to carry the team. I expect more out of JV and Miggy than Porcello and Avila.

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I agree on the last part but if Miggy is 0-4, yet he's batting .340 getting on base and one of the best in the league it's hard to get upset with him because of an 0-4. Now if he has an .800 OPS next season I'm with ya, but a game here and there..I'm not going to call him out.

How long until Tiger fans make excuses for any move that Brad Ausmus makes? It looks like it will go from pre-season to post season. Managers have a public position. If a manager is not getting the job done, then he is subject to criticism. That is why they make the big bucks.

I'm hoping that we see more aggressiveness on the base paths. Going from 1st to 3rd on a base hit more often, and tagging up on fly balls would be nice.

firehim said:

How long until Tiger fans make excuses for any move that Brad Ausmus makes? It looks like it will go from pre-season to post season. Managers have a public position. If a manager is not getting the job done, then he is subject to criticism. That is why they make the big bucks.

I'm hoping that we see more aggressiveness on the base paths. Going from 1st to 3rd on a base hit more often, and tagging up on fly balls would be nice.

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I tend to agree. I don't bitch a ton about the team but if you think they're screwing up I see no problem with criticism.

you're gonna see a lot less of those days off, that you use to see with Jimmie.

firehim said:

How long until Tiger fans make excuses for any move that Brad Ausmus makes? It looks like it will go from pre-season to post season. Managers have a public position. If a manager is not getting the job done, then he is subject to criticism. That is why they make the big bucks.

I'm hoping that we see more aggressiveness on the base paths. Going from 1st to 3rd on a base hit more often, and tagging up on fly balls would be nice.

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managers get the big bucks? I wonder where Ausmus's salary would rank on the tigers payroll?

moves generally don't work because players don't execute. i rarely rip the manager but i rarely give them credit either