gotime909 said:

So you weren't implying that being a starter first generally means you'll be a more successful closer?

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Seriously...you are just trolling.

Rebbiv said:

Seriously...you are just trolling.

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All I'm doing is asking a question. Why is it that you get defensive if anyone questions something you post?

I'm just trying to understand where you were going with this thread.

grandy said:

Yes....and for the record, I hate the concept of a singular "closer". It makes much more sense to me for teams to bring in relief pitchers based on match-ups and strengths as opposed to one guy who's expected to pitch the entire inning regardless of who's due up.

But the rise of the position and the marketing of several closers over the last 20 years has me thinking it might have some impact on the next generation of pitchers.

Anyway, I don't want to feel like I'm derailing this thread, so carry on.

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About 20% of all closers are "elite". The difference between an "elite" closer and an "average" closer is only about 1-2 saves a year (maybe even 3). That is it.

Throughout his career, Brad Lidge had some great seasons, but I wouldn't call him an elite closer. Starters can easily go 10-15 years. Closers are lucky to still be relevant after 10, unless they are elite.

gotime909 said:

All I'm doing is asking a question. Why is it that you get defensive if anyone questions something you post?

I'm just trying to understand where you were going with this thread.

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Why is it that I am the only one you ask questions? Hmmm....

Rebbiv said:

Why is it that I am the only one you ask questions? Hmmm....

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Jesus you're sensitive

Rebbiv said:

About 20% of all closers are "elite". The difference between an "elite" closer and an "average" closer is only about 1-2 saves a year (maybe even 3). That is it.

Throughout his career, Brad Lidge had some great seasons, but I wouldn't call him an elite closer. Starters can easily go 10-15 years. Closers are lucky to still be relevant after 10, unless they are elite.

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Ok?

All I'm trying to say is that I don't think it would be extremely uncommon to find young baseball players/fans that want to be closers.

grandy said:

He also didn't grow up in an era where closers were common, with several being labeled as "stars".

Think of young players just getting into the majors now, many of them were born in the early 90s. When they start learning and watching baseball (mid-late 90s), closers are on every team with many being portrayed as stars in the league. Guys like Rivera, Hoffman, Wagner, K-Rod, etc.

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The importance of the late-inning "firemen" as they were called in the 70s and 80s was as valuable then (more so) than the "closers" of today, even though the present save rule goes back to 1975. Guys like Hiller, Fingers, McGraw, Lyle, Marshall, Quisenberry, Teckulve, Eastwick, Righetti, Bedrosian ... they were recognized as much as present-day "closers."

And someday managers will figure out (once again) that the best time to bring in your best pen-man is not always, or even usually, with a lead in the ninth inning. So many "closers" are wasted "closing" rather than affecting a game earlier and perhaps avoiding the need for "saving" the game in the ninth inning. And the sad truth is that the Tigers do not have "that" pitcher, IMO.

Imo, use your best RP to pitch as many innings as possible. The old days of 130-150 innings pitched in the BP was the best.

Mitchrapp said:

Imo, use your best RP to pitch as many innings as possible. The old days of 130-150 innings pitched in the BP was the best.

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I wish we had that bullpen from 84. Aurelio Lopez and Willie Hernandez eating up 280 innings lol

gotime909 said:

I wish we had that bullpen from 84. Aurelio Lopez and Willie Hernandez eating up 280 innings lol

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Lopez is dead and Willie is 60 yrs old.

byco42 said:

Lopez is dead and Willie is 60 yrs old.

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Okay so we'd only be a little better.

byco42 said:

Lopez is dead and Willie is 60 yrs old.

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Well obviously I meant at their 84 skill level, but I'm not against bringing in Willie to see what ol' Guillermo's still got left