Iglesias is a one-way player. He is an elite defender, below-average to poor hitter, has good speed but doesn't use it on the basepaths and doesn't have the gap power to make it work in the batters box other than legging out a few singles. Suarez isn't elite at anything, nor will he be. He's going to be atleast average and most likely above average in a couple categories. He can hit a little, defend a little, run a little, and has a good eye at the plate. His OBP is what we need. Keeping Iglesias would be nice, as defense in the infield is a need. Just not necessarily as a starter.

Thundercats said:

Iglesias is a one-way player. He is an elite defender, below-average to poor hitter, has good speed but doesn't use it on the basepaths and doesn't have the gap power to make it work in the batters box other than legging out a few singles. Suarez isn't elite at anything, nor will he be. He's going to be atleast average and most likely above average in a couple categories. He can hit a little, defend a little, run a little, and has a good eye at the plate. His OBP is what we need. Keeping Iglesias would be nice, as defense in the infield is a need. Just not necessarily as a starter.

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I agree with most of what you posted.

With his plus defense, Iggy is still overall average at SS. If his defense declines, then his value declines. Any offense he provides is a plus. But with his atrocious walk rate, he probably will be streaky.

Suarez will most likely be an above average SS. Although I think he could be elite if he developed properly. I also think he can develop more power as he ages and he might become a 3B in time.

Rebbiv said:

I agree with most of what you posted.

With his plus defense, Iggy is still overall average at SS. If his defense declines, then his value declines. Any offense he provides is a plus. But with his atrocious walk rate, he probably will be streaky.

Suarez will most likely be an above average SS. Although I think he could be elite if he developed properly. I also think he can develop more power as he ages and he might become a 3B in time.

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Hopefully he is using this time off to work on his upper body.

If Suarez develops nicely, Id rather have him than Iggy. Im also still glad we traded away garcia for iggy. Its honestly pretty nice to actually have a glut of good/decent young middle infielders for once.

Reports are Lester was pulled from his start today, looks like someone is going to get him. Anyone think DD is trying for him? Would allow him to move Smyly back to the pen and keep the LH starter he wants so desperately.

I don't really want him, and I don't see what we have the Red Sox would want, but if Soria is the only move we make then it's pretty obvious we're going to be outclassed no matter who we face in the playoffs.

Thumb said:

Reports are Lester was pulled from his start today, looks like someone is going to get him. Anyone think DD is trying for him? Would allow him to move Smyly back to the pen and keep the LH starter he wants so desperately.

I don't really want him, and I don't see what we have the Red Sox would want, but if Soria is the only move we make then it's pretty obvious we're going to be outclassed no matter who we face in the playoffs.

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Rumors are St Louis and Pitts both going after him with dodgers interested as well

Go after Longeria and Price and McGee... Give them Nick and every player in the minor leagues we have they want...


Or Zobrist and Joyce and Mcgee.. and fill in the blanks with who they want...

We need to win now... This year.. We are running out of time...

biggunsbob said:

Go after Longeria and Price and McGee... Give them Nick and every player in the minor leagues we have they want...


Or Zobrist and Joyce and Mcgee.. and fill in the blanks with who they want...

We need to win now... This year.. We are running out of time...

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I'm really ok with "all in" at this point. I've already convinced myself the Tigers are going to be pretty bad in 3-5 years if not sooner. Depending on Illitch's health I suppose.

Thumb said:

He's done a pretty good job for us so far, but if we can find someone to take that salary without us having to chip in I'd be happy.

Time to start thinking of Casty as an OF or package him as well, because he is terrible at 3B, stone hands, cement shoes. Next year's IF could be Miggy, Travis, Iggy, and Suarez assuming we can land a power bat for the OF, or two if JD fizzles out.

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Your giving up on Nick C already?

stonecold2136 said:

Your giving up on Nick C already?

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At 3B maybe, he hasn't been good there. Of course who knows if he's any good in the OF. Even as rookies go, he's not very good..at least not what I expect from a top 20 prospect not long ago. His walk rate is poor, his hr power is almost non existent and he's a poor fielder. Don't get me started with plate discipline.

He is still young though..But I expected a bit more..

I think Castellanos loses all value if he plays anywhere but 3B. He doesn't have the offense to be a corner OFer. Never did. It is rare for a player to improve their OPS and/or Walk Rate from the Career Minor League numbers (prior to full callup and minus rookie/GCL) to their Career Major League numbers. There are rare exceptions (Miguel Cabrera and/or Torii Hunter), but they are RARE. Additionally, without walk rate improvement at the MLB level, players generally do not have a higher OPS than what they did in the minor leagues. In FACT, most players lose 30-100 points from the Minor League OPS to their Major League OPS over the course of a career. Again, that is normally without showing a walk rate improvement.


Minor League

J.D. Martinez .391 OBP .536 SLG .927 OPS 12.7 PA/BB vs .737 OPS 16.2 PA/BB

V. Martinez .391 OBP .488 SLG .879 OPS 10.7 PA/BB vs .841 OPS 12.5 PA/BB

Kinsler .379 OBP .500 SLG .879 OPS 11.3 PA/BB vs .799 OPS 11.1 PA/BB

Castellanos .358 OBP .446 SLG .804 OPS 13.5 PA/BB vs .701 OPS 17.0 PA/BB

Cabrera .352 OBP .446 SLG .798 OPS 13.8 PA/BB vs .963 OPS 11.3 PA/BB

Avila .372 OBP .424 SLG .796 OPS 8.2 PA/BB vs .758 OPS 8.2 PA/BB

R. Davis .375 OBP .412 SLG .787 OPS 11.5 PA/BB vs .700 OPS 18.1 PA/BB

Suarez .357 OBP .420 SLG .777 OPS 10.3 PA/BB vs .741 OPS 11.3 PA/BB

Jackson .354 OBP .410 SLG .764 OPS 11.5 PA/BB vs .756 OPS 11.9 PA/BB

Hunter .336 OBP .425 SLG .761 OPS 14.5 PA/BB vs .799 OPS 15.7 PA/BB


Kelly .354 OBP .378 SLG .732 OPS 11.1 PA/BB vs .634 OPS 14.0 PA/BB

Romine .355 OBP .361 SLG .716 OPS 10.7 PA/BB vs .548 OPS 14.9 PA/BB

Holaday .313 OBP .349 SLG .662 OPS 13.6 PA/BB vs .652 OPS 16.2 PA/BB

Iglesias .307 OBP .314 SLG .621 OPS 16.8 PA/BB vs .678 OPS 24.5 PA/BB


Again, it is very rare, given ample sample size, for a player to increase their career OPS and walk rate from the minors to the majors. Generally, you will see an OPS increase when there is a walk rate increase. It is rare to do it with a walk rate over 14.0 PA/BB. I will also add this isn't exact science, but it does go back throughout MLB history and is pretty darn reliable.


Let's look at some other Tiger prospects being "hyped".

D. Travis (23) .389 OBP .487 SLG .876 OPS 12.1 PA/BB

T. Collins (24) .344 OBP .443 SLG .787 OPS 10.8 PA/BB

S. Moya (22) .287 OBP .459 SLG .746 OPS 25.1 PA/BB

J. Krizan (25) .351 OBP .369 SLG .720 OPS 9.2 PA/BB

Lester to the A's....We need Price really bad now.....

I personally think the A's got hosed in this deal. Give up one of your outfield pillars for a rental? I get Lester is a darn good pitcher, but if Oakland doesn't get it done this year then it was terrible. Not to mention that Lester has publicly said he is all but going back to Boston, how truly motivated will he be in Oakland??

dubbsco said:

I personally think the A's got hosed in this deal. Give up one of your outfield pillars for a rental? I get Lester is a darn good pitcher, but if Oakland doesn't get it done this year then it was terrible. Not to mention that Lester has publicly said he is all but going back to Boston, how truly motivated will he be in Oakland??

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They got Gomes too. Gomes isn't Cespedes, but he's still decent. Overall, this should make them a better team for this season, though I agree with you on the rest.

Eh, I won't even go as far as calling Gomes decent. He's hitting .234 with 6 HRs. He's okay.

Haven't the Tigers owned Lester too? I remember Cespedes doing pretty darn good against Detroit in the playoffs.

dubbsco said:

Eh, I won't even go as far as calling Gomes decent. He's hitting .234 with 6 HRs. He's okay.

Haven't the Tigers owned Lester too? I remember Cespedes doing pretty darn good against Detroit in the playoffs.

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Miggy, VMart, and Hunter combined are 34-70 off Lester with 9 walks, and 6 strikeouts. Overall Detroit's current roster has a combined 1.056 OPS vs. Lester, which is by far the highest of any opponent.

I think Lester did pretty well overall against us in the ALCS though.

It's hard for me to put a finger on it, but Lester doesn't send shivers down my spines when thinking about the Tigers facing him. Now, if they got Kershaw, that would be another story.

Cepedes has been solid at the plate..though a good defender. He'll be 29 at seasons end. Lester might be a 3 month rental..Cepedes is a FA a year later. Probably a fair deal..

Lester doesn't scare me either but adding him just pushes one of their other starters down the list..this is what you do to try and win a WS. Not trading for a RP.

dubbsco said:

I personally think the A's got hosed in this deal. Give up one of your outfield pillars for a rental? I get Lester is a darn good pitcher, but if Oakland doesn't get it done this year then it was terrible. Not to mention that Lester has publicly said he is all but going back to Boston, how truly motivated will he be in Oakland??

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Cespedes Career Away

.248 BAVG .293 OBP .447 SLG .740 OPS 19.9 PA/BB

Since 2012 Total

Cespedes .788 OPS .339 wOBA 117 wRC+

Jackson .787 OPS .344 wOBA 115 wRC+

Offensively, isn't any better than Austin Jackson. I don't know about anyone else, but I would be thrilled to move Jackson for Lester and Gomes. Thrilled.

Cespedes is an absolute beast in the outfield. He's only been in the league a few years, and has already shown great power.

Lester is going to be there for a few months. If Oakland doesn't get a WS out of this season, it was a waste. I get it's speculation, but I doubt that Lester will be fired up for the remainder. He wants to be back in Boston. His heart is elsewhere.

I was being nice saying Gomes is okay. He's not that good. In his defense, he fights well.