Maybin named Al Co-Player of the week, along with Miggy.

brewer229 said:

Not that I'm defending the trade, but why do you consider him an all-star second baseman? He is 25 and has a little over 200 career MLB ABs.

What position would Travis of played on our team this year?

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Possibly the OF or 3B. If you have a guy with a bat as good as his you have to find a place for him.

Travis will be back soon. I guess its a judgement call on him being an All Star for some. For me I am convinced he is a top tier 2nd baseman right now.

Actually, prior to being traded, Travis played the final 3 games in 2014 in CF and did a plausible job.

Additionally, who is to say Ian Kinlser either stays with the team or remains at 2B is Travis isn't traded.

Glad to to wrong on Maybin so far, and hope he keeps it up. I hope we never see Gose in a Tiger uniform again. Wish we still had Travis.

Seriously guys, you are so negative... Maybin is a Huge upgrade over Gose, maybe not defensively but with the bat and on the bases, yes... Gose never got on base, because he struck out at a high rate, Maybin does not strike out at that rate... Gose was a joke at the major league level, should not have been the starting CF for the last two years... The only reason he was is because we traded AJ for Price and we needed a guy to go get fly balls in Comerica... RDavis was the only option for a year in CF, not really a good one... Bottom line, good trade to get Maybin...


As far as Travis, he was never going to get to the majors because we have Kinsler... Do you forget why we have him? We were lucky to get such a "professional" ballplayer for Prince... Prince had a "HUGE" contract, pretty much untradeable... But somehow, we got rid of him for a "gammer" who has been more than we could have expected when the trade was made. I see Kinsler bust his ass every game, become a much better player than we could have hoped for in the deal. BTW, have you seen what Prince has done for Texas??? First year, out for the season in May with a neck injury... Second season, start out great, then decline in the final months and go 0'fer in the playoffs (have we seen that before?)... Third season, so far he is pathetic, overweight, barley hitting .200 with 2 hr's... He's making 20 mil + for several years... Meanwhile, Kinsler is hitting .300 plus with 10 hr's, plus his sound/sometimes incredible defense... His turn at 2b in a dp is second to no one...


Seriously, are we still bitching about Travis????? If so, would you rather have him at second and Prince at first, Miggy at Third, Nick in left, without Zimmerman because of the HUGE contract of Prince? Don't worry, Prince told you after we lost to Boston in the ALCS, who could give a fuck, we have more serious issues to worry about!!!

I agree with all that that basically you can't have one without the other. The Travis trade was a loss but then you look at additional moves made that were wins that maybe don't happen otherwise.

The trio of Boyd/Norris/fullmer isn't there without the high priced signings or other moves that people are critical of.

I just hope Maybin may have figured stuff out. Glad to be wrong on him so far and hope he keeps it up !!!!

Rebbiv said:

Actually, prior to being traded, Travis played the final 3 games in 2014 in CF and did a plausible job.

Additionally, who is to say Ian Kinlser either stays with the team or remains at 2B is Travis isn't traded.

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Its a good thing Kinsler is still with the team. His contract is just now becoming a value and also eating the dead money from Prince's contract.

Top 3 2nd basemen in baseball

Cano 14-23:$24M annually

Kinsler 13:$13M, 14:$16M, 15:$16M, 16:$14M, 17:$11M, 18:$10M club option ($5M buyout)

jimmygank said:

I agree with all that that basically you can't have one without the other. The Travis trade was a loss but then you look at additional moves made that were wins that maybe don't happen otherwise.

The trio of Boyd/Norris/fullmer isn't there without the high priced signings or other moves that people are critical of.

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11/13/2014 = Traded Devon Travis to the Toronto Blue Jays. Received Anthony Gose.

12/05/2014 = As part of a 3-team trade, traded Domingo Leyba (minors) and Robbie Ray to the Arizona Diamondbacks. Received Shane Greene from New York Yankees.

12/11/2014 = Traded Rick Porcello to the Boston Red Sox. Received Gabe Speier (minors), Yoenis Cespedes and Alex Wilson. Traded Jonathon Crawford (minors) and Eugenio Suarez to the Cincinnati Reds. Received Alfredo Simon.


Travis, Suarez, Leyba and Ray were commodities that were pissed away. They were all cost controlled given away for 1/2 year or 1 year rentals. If we retain Cespedes and Price, give them a qualifying offer and they walk, we still get 2 high level picks. So obtaining Norris, Boyd and Fulmer (who really haven't sustained any amount of sustained success to warrant accolades) really only replaced Travis, Suarez, Leyba and Ray.

Maybe we should go back a year prior when we traded a 2-year controlled Doug Fister for Robbie Ray, Ian Krol and Steve Lombardozzi.

And speaking of trades, does trading Drew Smyly, Austin Jackson and Willy Adames for Davis Price factor into any of this?

Where are the wins you talk about? Porcello for Cespedes maybe? At the time, Porcello still had a year remaining and DET could have still received a pick if he walked. So it really was just a trade of 1-year players.

So at our peak, we had Fister, Porcello and Smyly all under contract through 2015 and they were all gone before the beginning of 2015. We traded for Price, Cespedes and Soria hoping to make a push and we collapsed big time.

FYI...Jake Thompson (22, Soria deal) and Robbie Ray (24, Greene deal) are actually better prospects than any of the combination of Matt Boyd (25), Norris (23) or Fulmer (23).


Bottom line. You don't "win" every deal you make. You try to break even. With that said, I am of the opinion we have lost more than we won by a wide margin since the Fister trade and the win-loss record on the field has shown it.

stonecold2136 said:

Its a good thing Kinsler is still with the team. His contract is just now becoming a value and also eating the dead money from Prince's contract.

Top 3 2nd basemen in baseball

Cano 14-23:$24M annually

Kinsler 13:$13M, 14:$16M, 15:$16M, 16:$20M, 17:$17M, 18:$16M club option ($11M buyout), 19:$6 Mil, 20:$6 Mil

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Fixed

Of course the porcello deal was a win.

The Kinsler deal was a win

Getting Sanchez was a win.

Cespedes for fullmer was a win.

The maybin deal thus far a win.

The trade of Price a win.

Jacoby Jones looks like a plausible win.

Not surprisingly rebbiv you will take the absolute negative spin but you still refuse to believe Kinsler is an upgrade over Infante so I'm pretty much convinced you are unwilling to defer anything.

jimmygank said:

Of course the porcello deal was a win.

The Kinsler deal was a win

Getting Sanchez was a win.

Cespedes for fullmer was a win.

The maybin deal thus far a win.

The trade of Price a win.

Jacoby Jones looks like a plausible win.

Not surprisingly rebbiv you will take the absolute negative spin but you still refuse to believe Kinsler is an upgrade over Infante so I'm pretty much convinced you are unwilling to defer anything.

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For some, they are incapable of understanding. I only went back as far as the offseason before last and last offseason. You want to go back even further just to bring favorable trades into the equation. Got it.

I have pointed out numerous times that prior to the trade, Infante's stats were on par with Kinsler. There is no debating the comparison. Now, injuries cannot be foretasted. And to say they are the same over the last 2 seasons would take a moron. Get over the fact that I pointed out they had similar stats.

And any notion that a trade is won after just 40 games is folly. Let's wait til the season's end or next season to make brash statements as to who won. Clearly trading Travis for trash was a huge loss, which were the bases of the argument. To say that we had Kinsler is being short-sighted. Travis was out #1 prospect at the time. He could have been easily traded for any other team need.

jimmygank said:

Of course the porcello deal was a win.

The Kinsler deal was a win

Getting Sanchez was a win.

Cespedes for fullmer was a win.

The maybin deal thus far a win.

The trade of Price a win.

Jacoby Jones looks like a plausible win.

Not surprisingly rebbiv you will take the absolute negative spin but you still refuse to believe Kinsler is an upgrade over Infante so I'm pretty much convinced you are unwilling to defer anything.

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:clap:

The dude is way too full of himself and hard-headed to admit he lost a baseball debate. He'll just cling to his arbitrary spinjob stats and deflect like always when he lost or he'll claim 'taking it out of context' as his go-to deflection tactic, it's absolutely pathetic. I ruined him on Kinsler and Fielder and he can't stand it. He is the most overrated poster on these boards. I'm sure one of his white knights will come in and defend him on my post at some point.

I see you don't dispute your glass half empty outlook.

I'm sorry rebbiv you literally argued Infante was a better value AND overall player (solely based on ops away). Now several years later you are incapable of merely stating "I was wrong"

So many people would take your input (which has value) much more to heart with even the slightest amount of humility.

I will admit at this point my defense of the Upton signing is looking like a fail. Not super difficult.

So I'm really not the only one to point this out. Hmmmmm

gotime909 said:

So I'm really not the only one to point this out. Hmmmmm

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Except you'rE a jackass when you do it. Talking about humility you have none. And it's obvious you rail into a guy just to do it..

Mitchrapp said:

Except you'rE a jackass when you do it. Talking about humility you have none. And it's obvious you rail into a guy just to do it..

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jimmygank said:

I see you don't dispute your glass half empty outlook.

I'm sorry rebbiv you literally argued Infante was a better value AND overall player (solely based on ops away). Now several years later you are incapable of merely stating "I was wrong"

So many people would take your input (which has value) much more to heart with even the slightest amount of humility.

I will admit at this point my defense of the Upton signing is looking like a fail. Not super difficult.

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What does that mean? Has the Tigers been winning? Did they win last year with those moves? Are they winning this year? I would gladly eat crow if the Tigers won the World Series with these trades. Of all those winning trades you cite, where did it put the team?

I assume you are like me and want the Tigers to win a World Series. I have not once questioned your character, but it is OK if you attack mine. Sorry if I tend to want to defend myself here. I am done. You win.

All I know is Kinsler is putting up numbers and we got Prince the hell out of here. After Fielder shot his mouth off after the playoff elimination it was time for him to go.

Prince does not have what it takes in the playoffs. Not sure if he was nervous or is just a player that sucks in the post season. But the bottom line is he had to get the fuck out of here

Rebbiv said:

What does that mean? Has the Tigers been winning? Did they win last year with those moves? Are they winning this year? I would gladly eat crow if the Tigers won the World Series with these trades. Of all those winning trades you cite, where did it put the team?

I assume you are like me and want the Tigers to win a World Series. I have not once questioned your character, but it is OK if you attack mine. Sorry if I tend to want to defend myself here. I am done. You win.

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Are you suggesting that if a trade does result in a World Series victory then it is a fail??

But it has seemed to me that every move the Tigers have made has been met with negative feedback from you. Not that every move has had a positive effect on the team (cough)Pelfrey(cough). I just don't remember any moves made by the Tigers met with enthusiasm from you.