Tom. It isn't the money/dollar amount. It is the value received relative to the pay. As of right now, Cabrera is a bargain. He is the offense for DET.

tomdalton22 said:

I understand that he could be great at 35. The problem is not just him but the rest of the team. $98M for 4 players....it will be a miracle to be able to field a competitive team with that much $ going to 4 players. Look at the two teams in the WS this year. They are good from top to bottom. This isn't the NBA where you can win with a few great players.

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This year 89 million went to 5 players. They were pretty good. With a healthy Cabrera, they might still be playing.

byco42 said:

This year 89 million went to 5 players. They were pretty good. With a healthy Cabrera, they might still be playing.

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maybe....but on the other hand the Red Sox could have easily pitched right around Miggy and would still have beat the Tigers.

Lots of factors to consider with the Tigers core, the likely huge jump in broadcast revenue, the ever escalating player salaries, Mr Ilitch short/long term health, and whether or not we fans want to see Miggy retire as a Tiger and have a D on the cap of his bust in the HOF someday.

I am not very happy with the postseason performances of both Miggy and Prince, as their best postseason hitters have been ex-Tiger Delmon Young, Victor Martinez, and Jhonny Peralta. of the latter two, only VMart is likely to return next season,. But for the '14 team to reach the postseason again, as well as near future teams, then Miggy's regular season hitting is essential for the teams to clinch a berth. Tigers need to find the players that they currently do not have that will provide the hitting boost need to win in the postseason, including a couple who have decent if not outstanding baserunning skills and can display more patience @ the plate.

Name one tradeable player or even a combo of two that would be worth Miguel Cabrera. And be realistic. We're not getting Puig + Kershaw.

Monster said:

Name one tradeable player or even a combo of two that would be worth Miguel Cabrera. And be realistic. We're not getting Puig + Kershaw.

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given most people on this board have the opinion that he is too good to trade you would think that other GM's would give up the moon and stars to get him.

tomdalton22 said:

given most people on this board have the opinion that he is too good to trade you would think that other GM's would give up the moon and stars to get him.

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The problem is you would negate what Cabrera got you in return to offer the moon and starts for him. He's fantastic, but he's 1 player, no GM will give up what he represents in today's value.

We got him because Florida was going to lose him anyways, and they got a ton in return, that just didn't pan out how they hoped. But it's not the same situation as if we were trading him today. Not only has his value peaked exponentially (you seem to be the only one who thinks he's heading for decline), but we can also afford to sign him to whatever contract he wants. We are in no danger of losing him unless he simply wants to go somewhere else.

So in order for us to trade him, it would likely be for a deal no other GM could possibly make without crippling his own franchise.

So the short answer to should we trade him is no, we just cannot get fair value for him in a trade.

Thumb said:

The problem is you would negate what Cabrera got you in return to offer the moon and starts for him. He's fantastic, but he's 1 player, no GM will give up what he represents in today's value.

We got him because Florida was going to lose him anyways, and they got a ton in return, that just didn't pan out how they hoped. But it's not the same situation as if we were trading him today. Not only has his value peaked exponentially (you seem to be the only one who thinks he's heading for decline), but we can also afford to sign him to whatever contract he wants. We are in no danger of losing him unless he simply wants to go somewhere else.

So in order for us to trade him, it would likely be for a deal no other GM could possibly make without crippling his own franchise.

So the short answer to should we trade him is no, we just cannot get fair value for him in a trade.

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What he said.

Thumb said:

The problem is you would negate what Cabrera got you in return to offer the moon and starts for him. He's fantastic, but he's 1 player, no GM will give up what he represents in today's value.

We got him because Florida was going to lose him anyways, and they got a ton in return, that just didn't pan out how they hoped. But it's not the same situation as if we were trading him today. Not only has his value peaked exponentially (you seem to be the only one who thinks he's heading for decline), but we can also afford to sign him to whatever contract he wants. We are in no danger of losing him unless he simply wants to go somewhere else.

So in order for us to trade him, it would likely be for a deal no other GM could possibly make without crippling his own franchise.

So the short answer to should we trade him is no, we just cannot get fair value for him in a trade.

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Today's value is what you can get for him. If another GM is willing to give up 2 good every day players and 2 good prospects that is his value. I just think that signing him to an extension is going to cripple this franchise because of the other huge contracts that were given out.

I think a lot of you are in love with the individual players more than the team (not you in particular) I have read comments like "wanting him to retire a Tiger" or "Go into the HOF as a Tiger". I really don't give a crap about any of that.

tomdalton22 said:

Today's value is what you can get for him. If another GM is willing to give up 2 good every day players and 2 good prospects that is his value. I just think that signing him to an extension is going to cripple this franchise because of the other huge contracts that were given out.

I think a lot of you are in love with the individual players more than the team (not you in particular) I have read comments like "wanting him to retire a Tiger" or "Go into the HOF as a Tiger". I really don't give a crap about any of that.

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That's not even close to his value.

Monster said:

Name one tradeable player or even a combo of two that would be worth Miguel Cabrera. And be realistic. We're not getting Puig + Kershaw.

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I would not make that deal.

byco42 said:

I would not make that deal.

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I wouldn't either. Kershaw turned down a $300M deal.

tomdalton22 said:

Today's value is what you can get for him. If another GM is willing to give up 2 good every day players and 2 good prospects that is his value. I just think that signing him to an extension is going to cripple this franchise because of the other huge contracts that were given out.

I think a lot of you are in love with the individual players more than the team (not you in particular) I have read comments like "wanting him to retire a Tiger" or "Go into the HOF as a Tiger". I really don't give a crap about any of that.

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Plain and simple Tom you think Cabrera is declining and we think he's still in his prime. We'd need GREAT players not just good ones to give him away. Like the last post said no team could do that without crippling themselves. Kind of reminds me of the guy on the espn boards last year (who might post in these boards, I wouldn't know.) He thought we should have traded Miggy for Andrus, Ogando, Profar and Matt Harrison or something like that. He, like you, coveted depth so much he was willing to downplay Cabrera's value to a good prospect, a steady MLB SS and a few decent other guys.

greenbeerd13 said:

Plain and simple Tom you think Cabrera is declining and we think he's still in his prime. We'd need GREAT players not just good ones to give him away. Like the last post said no team could do that without crippling themselves. Kind of reminds me of the guy on the espn boards last year (who might post in these boards, I wouldn't know.) He thought we should have traded Miggy for Andrus, Ogando, Profar and Matt Harrison or something like that. He, like you, coveted depth so much he was willing to downplay Cabrera's value to a good prospect, a steady MLB SS and a few decent other guys.

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my original premis was that at the beginning of 2016 the Tigers are going to have $98M tied up in 4 players if they extend Miggy. I just don't think you can field a competiteve TEAM with 4 guys making that much. I also think a lot of people here think that one superstar can carry a team to the WS. I think it takes a complete team.

byco42 said:

That's not even close to his value.

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This is true. Tom does not realize that Cabrera's value, like Verlander and even Fielder, goes far beyond what happens on the field.

Those guys put butts in the seats. They sell an enormous amount of merchandise for the Tigers, they make other players want to come here (Hunter came here because of guys like Verlander and Cabrera who he thought gave him a shot at a ring).

Cabrera's on-field value is hard to imagine, his total value to the franchise might be immeasurable.

Last year there was talk of (hypothetically) who would trade Miggy straight up for Trout, who was young and cheap and a superstar on defense and the basepaths, and most said no. That's because Cabrera might be worth 2 Mike Trouts.

tomdalton22 said:

my original premis was that at the beginning of 2016 the Tigers are going to have $98M tied up in 4 players if they extend Miggy. I just don't think you can field a competiteve TEAM with 4 guys making that much. I also think a lot of people here think that one superstar can carry a team to the WS. I think it takes a complete team.

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Indeed it does, but those 4 guys make a very strong foundation, and that's what every great team needs.

The injury is IMO the real issue. Fix it and yea he plays great again. But and this is the question. What happens should it happen again. I my self have had two hernia's. There is no way of telling the what could happen over the next few seasons. Cabrera being Miggy is the real deal. But tieing up the money it is going to take to resign/sign him is going to be a gamble from now on. At the same time it would take a good/great deal for me to trade him. But should the price be right anything is for sale/trade' But keeping Cabrera will not fix team speed, as it will keep at least three batters in the lineup that are station to station runners next season for sure. And then there the defense to consider Cabrera will not get better as he ages.

And what is it going to cost to resign him? what will he ask for? 30 mil/10 years? Should the Tiger want to retain him they should start finding out what it will take. IE a new contract now after the spring training 2014?

i don't get this thread. This team is a complete team (contrary to what tomdalton said), but we're missing that leadoff hitter that sets the table for guys like Miggy and Prince. When Ajax was hitting, this offense was amazing. As soon as he lost his bat, the rest of the offense collapsed - it got worse when Miggy had his nagging injuries.

The tigers don't seem to be afraid of spending money as long as the team is doing well and there's no salary cap, so I doubt we're going to freak out that we might get bumped up to #3 in overall salary with so many big salaries.

As much as I hate the idea, the Tigers could probably find a good leadoff hitter with a trade involving Max. Smyly would get his opportunity as a full-time starter and the lineup would get the last piece it needs. Not sure what is out there in FA, but perhaps there's an option there.

This thread should really be about Max Scherzer, not Miggy. As others have said we are trying to win a World Series (at least one) within the next few years. Miggy is the key to our entire offense, and if he hadn't gotten hurt (or if certain guys in front of him hadn't crapped their pants in the postseason), then we stood a very good chance of winning it all. Hell even with all our problems we still nearly pulled it off. Why would you want to trade that away? Max makes much more sense to trade, because of his contract situation and the fact that we have other good starters even without him (plug Smyly in the rotation). We do not have another Miggy, nobody does. Scherzer is our tradeable asset that could bring us some younger ML quality players. His value is the one that is more likely to have peaked than Miggy. Anyone think he is going to win a second Cy Young in his career? I don't.

I don't think Miggy is somehow "on the decline" just because of what happened to his health. It was not out of the question that the man would win a second straight Triple Crown up until September. He's never been a fast runner anyway, so it's not like a decline in speed as he ages will have that much of a negative impact on his game. The town would be up in arms if Miggy were traded now.

NO

/end thread