Why would signing Miggy to an extension that would obviously be huge in salary and possibly, if not career-encompassingly long be a problem going forward? UNLESS Mr. I passes away within the next several years and his family or whoever the franchise might possibly be sold to decides to act like Pohlad or Loria. Apparently the franchise is on the verge of collecting mega-millions in increased revenue from broadcast permissions and contracts.

There is of course some risk involved that Miggy could become injured more often and for longer periods as he ages, as well as going into decline as a hitter, especially once he is a year or two past prime, but even if so, he likely will still be measurably better than most other elite batters, his past postseasons notwithstanding (with the lone exception of the '11 ALCS vs TX, not very Miggy-like overall)

There is no guarantee that whomever the Tigers would obtain in exchange for Cabrera in trade, be it some combo of blue-chip prospects, ML-ready studs, and/or established young 5 tool talented stars with potential would pan out or not, much less suffer injury(s) requiring stints on the DL or become injury-prone themselves.

The one future problem that I do envision is both Fielder and Cabrera needing to DH due to age and/or injury recovery, when it is very likely that Prince will need to become FT DH and soon, if he doesn't try to get himself in better physical (and mental) shape, lose weight or worse, gains even more lbs.

Rebbiv said:

Tom. It isn't the money/dollar amount. It is the value received relative to the pay. As of right now, Cabrera is a bargain. He is the offense for DET.

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Seriously. He accounted for 25% of our HRs this year, while basically taking a month off from hitting HRs.

It's no surprise our offense went from very good to mediocre when he stopped hitting for power.

Mitchrapp said:

The problem with this is it does guarantee you'll win anything. What Mike I. needs to do is get someone in here who can Draft worth a damn. Make this team competitive year after year by bringing up good ml talent now and again.

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Like Boston Did this year... I agree building a go farm system is important but it is not everything.. It is important long with signing guys.. What you want takes years.. The Tigers have 3 year window now... We have to get it done.. Team is only a few players away.. Look How Boston reworked its team this year?

biggunsbob said:

Like Boston Did this year... I agree building a go farm system is important but it is not everything.. It is important long with signing guys.. What you want takes years.. The Tigers have 3 year window now... We have to get it done.. Team is only a few players away.. Look How Boston reworked its team this year?

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this team is only a couple of players away because of its pitching. Pitching is the only reason ANY of the games this postseason were even close. Pitching is the only reason we got out of the Oakland series. Losing max would hurt worse than losing miggy imo long term. Ive already seen plenty of powerhouse lineups lose a bat and still be great teams. Ive seen the Angels think they put together the best lineup in baseball..... and suck. If you get the opportunity to sign an elite pitcher you should....and if you get an opportunity to resign an AL cy young pitcher in his prime I think you have to figure out how to do that too.

Wouldn't want to see either player go....but im pretty sure were in much worse shape in the regular season if our rotation includes porcello and smyly than if we have a lineup without miggy.

mhughes0021 said:

this team is only a couple of players away because of its pitching. Pitching is the only reason ANY of the games this postseason were even close. Pitching is the only reason we got out of the Oakland series. Losing max would hurt worse than losing miggy imo long term. Ive already seen plenty of powerhouse lineups lose a bat and still be great teams. Ive seen the Angels think they put together the best lineup in baseball..... and suck. If you get the opportunity to sign an elite pitcher you should....and if you get an opportunity to resign an AL cy young pitcher in his prime I think you have to figure out how to do that too.

Wouldn't want to see either player go....but im pretty sure were in much worse shape in the regular season if our rotation includes porcello and smyly than if we have a lineup without miggy.

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Without Miggy, we aren't even a good lineup, let alone a "powerhouse" one.

There's no doubt whatosever that Cabrera is more important to the Tigers than Scherzer.

mjsb2 said:

Without Miggy, we aren't even a good lineup, let alone a "powerhouse" one.

There's no doubt whatosever that Cabrera is more important to the Tigers than Scherzer.

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without scherzer we probably finish 8 games behind cle this year.

mhughes0021 said:

without scherzer we probably finish 8 games behind cle this year.

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Max only effects 1/5 of the Tigers games, there is just no way he is more valuable to the club than Cabrera.


I doubt you can say Max is the only reason we [would have] won 9 more games than Cleveland.

Thumb said:

Max only effects 1/5 of the Tigers games, there is just no way he is more valuable to the club than Cabrera.


I doubt you can say Max is the only reason we [would have] won 9 more games than Cleveland.

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not sure if we led the league but im sure we were pretty high on the list of quality starts. Which is very necessary when you have a shitty BP like ours. Start losing guys like max and you start seeing more of guys like coke. Whats our record without miggy in the lineup the last few years....just wondering....im too lazy to look it up lol.

mhughes0021 said:

without scherzer we probably finish 8 games behind cle this year.

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I actually think the Tigers will go after Max pretty hard. If you can keep JV, Max, Sanchez and Fister as your starters then you will most likely remain a threat to compete for a world series. I just can't see DD and Mr. I just letting him walk because of the money. Mr. I is all in right now and a world series seems to be his top priority right now. If we traded him then we'd have to get a top notch pitcher back...so who is going to offer us that type of pitcher....a legit #1/#2 starter and then risk Max walking on them?

Quality starts is a misleading stat. A pitcher can be losing 3-2 after the 6th inning and still get a QS.

Not to mention Max got so much run support anyways, he didn't really need QS to get his W's.

manchild98 said:

I actually think the Tigers will go after Max pretty hard. If you can keep JV, Max, Sanchez and Fister as your starters then you will most likely remain a threat to compete for a world series. I just can't see DD and Mr. I just letting him walk because of the money. Mr. I is all in right now and a world series seems to be his top priority right now. If we traded him then we'd have to get a top notch pitcher back...so who is going to offer us that type of pitcher....a legit #1/#2 starter and then risk Max walking on them?

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I don't think it's about money MC. It's about how do you fix the holes you have when the free agents might not be the answer. So you trade Max for high value targets, such as a good 2B or a LF and some other pieces.

And as far as a top notch pitcher back, the reason we can trade Max is because of the depth we have at SP. I would expect Smyly to join the rotation if we traded Max.

mhughes0021 said:

without scherzer we probably finish 8 games behind cle this year.

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Probably not.

Scherzer was certainly not worth 9 wins over what Smyly would have provided.

meh...agree to disagree. but its an easier gamble imo to have a dominant pitching staff shutting other teams down than to rely on a lineup to score runs.

id never trade miggy....just trying to argue scherzers worth if it was one or the other. I don't think it will be a 1 or the other type situation though.

biggunsbob said:

Like Boston Did this year... I agree building a go farm system is important but it is not everything.. It is important long with signing guys.. What you want takes years.. The Tigers have 3 year window now... We have to get it done.. Team is only a few players away.. Look How Boston reworked its team this year?

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If you want consistent playoff teams year after year without having to spend a boat load of cash.

mhughes0021 said:

not sure if we led the league but im sure we were pretty high on the list of quality starts. Which is very necessary when you have a shitty BP like ours. Start losing guys like max and you start seeing more of guys like coke. Whats our record without miggy in the lineup the last few years....just wondering....im too lazy to look it up lol.

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Quality Starts

Scherzer 25 - 32 .781 5.64 RS/G 21-3 (25-7)

Sanchez 22 - 29 .759 5.50 RS/G 14-8 (17-12)

Fister 22 - 32 .688 4.33 RS/G 14-9 (18-14)

Verlander 22 - 34 .647 4.74 RS/G 13-12 (14-20)

Porcello 18 - 29 .621 5.00 RS/G 13-8 (17-12)

AL AVG 83 - 162 .512 4.48 RS/G 81-81 (81-81)

General Rules about Quality. A team usually has a win for every Quality Start a team has, providing league average run support. Detroit far exceeded all AL teams with 108 Quality Starts (KC and BOS were next at 95). A team's starter generally get's 75% of his Quality Starts as wins.

Scherzer was 3rd in Run Support and 2nd in Quality Starts. Run Support is just as important to wins as Quality Starts.

Verlander had 28 QS and 4.73 RC/G in 2011 (Team was 25-9 in his games).

If Pitcher X got the same Run Support as Scherzer in 2013, then it stands to reason DET wins at least 21 of those starts.

Your argument is saying that Sanchez would have 4 more wins over Porcello, because he has 4 more Quality Starts. But, the actuality is there is really no difference between Porcello and Sanchez as far as team results.

Thumb said:

Max only effects 1/5 of the Tigers games, there is just no way he is more valuable to the club than Cabrera.


I doubt you can say Max is the only reason we [would have] won 9 more games than Cleveland.

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If you look at it like that Miggy only effects 1/9 of the time offensively.

mjsb2 said:

Without Miggy, we aren't even a good lineup, let alone a "powerhouse" one.

There's no doubt whatosever that Cabrera is more important to the Tigers than Scherzer.

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what was the Tigers record this year without Miggy?

Thumb said:

I don't think it's about money MC. It's about how do you fix the holes you have when the free agents might not be the answer. So you trade Max for high value targets, such as a good 2B or a LF and some other pieces.

And as far as a top notch pitcher back, the reason we can trade Max is because of the depth we have at SP. I would expect Smyly to join the rotation if we traded Max.

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You could probably trade both. Trade Max for high value targets like you said and then Trade Miggy for a good young pitcher, another high quality every day player and some good prospects. With the money you save they can fill in other holes via free agency.

Like has been said we need a lead-off hitter badly. This line-up when clicking is amazing and if we get a true lead-off hitter and we can move Jackson down in the order. I say move some pieces to get a lead-off hitter, and then sign Cano.. Bam title is ours the next 3 years!!!!!!!!

biggunsbob said:

Like has been said we need a lead-off hitter badly. This line-up when clicking is amazing and if we get a true lead-off hitter and we can move Jackson down in the order. I say move some pieces to get a lead-off hitter, and then sign Cano.. Bam title is ours the next 3 years!!!!!!!!

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Lead off hitter is a must, I agree with you there as well as the bullpen. No way do I want Cano here though if he's gonna get outrageous money. We already have plenty of long term bloated contracts. Cano is an unnecessary luxury the Tigers don't need to get them over the hump.