everyoneneedsasmil said:

So I've read in a few places now that Nathan is the closer, end of story. ESPN (Berry maybe, can't remember) even said that the Tigers wouldn't want Papelbon simply because it could create a closer controversy with Nathan.

I'm not as baseball savvy as some of you folks here, so could someone explain to me why that is even an issue? Nathan has been arguably our worst major league pitcher this year. Why is the team AT ALL worried about keeping him the closer?

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I think the mentality is to get him pitching better through the obvious competition for his job. If he chokes the next night it is Soria anyway "We wanted to give Joe some rest". If he starts to choke you can bring Soria in. There is no reason to tell him what everyone knows, and that is that his leash is VERY short at the moment. We'll see what that brings out.

The team is worried because they owe Nathan 10M for next year and they will have to eat money to move him if he continues like this. Better to know now.

kingofdetroit57 said:

Thanks for the info, Rebbiv, and my apologies for our previous dust up a few months back.

If he winds up getting to 23, it will be well worth it to us to pay the extra $1mil on the option because it's all the more evidence that he's what we need and Nathan isn't/wasn't.

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I don't remember a dust up. His buy out also goes up if he gets 55 GF. From .25 Mil to .75 Mil.


If the Tigers truly want to win, then they stop pussy-footing around the issue and demote Nathan as the closer. He is or shortly becoming a clubhouse cancer.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/batvspitch/_/id/28688/joakim-soria
Soria vs. angles.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/batvspitch/_/id/28688/teamId/11/joakim-soria
Soria vs. oakland.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/batvspitch/_/id/28688/teamId/5/joakim-soria
Soria vs. indians.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/28688/type/pitching3/joakim-soria
Soria 2011-2013.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=6941&position=P
Soria from fangraphs

Also, Joakim Soria will wear #38 with the #Tigers.

I have always been aaginst the title "closer". I believe your 9th inning (or 10th or whatever the situation is) guy should be whoever is your best reliever. For that reason I had wanted Benoit closing games for us for quite some time, rather then Valeverde, or Coke, or whoever Smoky tossed out there.

Same this year, Nathan is not our best bullpen pitcher. In fact, he's probably not even top 3 with Soria arriving. Let him get some low pressure work in, bring him in in the 6th or 7th innings, maybe that's what he needs....to focus not on whether or not he will blow the game, but just getting 3 outs as economically as possible. Let Joba and Soria handle the 8th and 9th, and as far as I'm concerned, either could do either job, and far better than Nathan.

Thumb said:

I have always been aaginst the title "closer". I believe your 9th inning (or 10th or whatever the situation is) guy should be whoever is your best reliever. For that reason I had wanted Benoit closing games for us for quite some time, rather then Valeverde, or Coke, or whoever Smoky tossed out there.

Same this year, Nathan is not our best bullpen pitcher. In fact, he's probably not even top 3 with Soria arriving. Let him get some low pressure work in, bring him in in the 6th or 7th innings, maybe that's what he needs....to focus not on whether or not he will blow the game, but just getting 3 outs as economically as possible. Let Joba and Soria handle the 8th and 9th, and as far as I'm concerned, either could do either job, and far better than Nathan.

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What did you think when we played Houston and Porter brought Qualls in in the 8th to face 2 - 3 - 4 if I recall correctly? His logic was that he was using his best pitcher against the other team's best hitters.

It is similar to what Ausmus did last night bringing Joba in in the 7th.

That's why I think having three guys you trust is vital. When the offense is as inconsistent as this one has been there are a lot of nights where you have to live with a one or two run lead.

Thumb said:

I have always been aaginst the title "closer". I believe your 9th inning (or 10th or whatever the situation is) guy should be whoever is your best reliever. For that reason I had wanted Benoit closing games for us for quite some time, rather then Valeverde, or Coke, or whoever Smoky tossed out there.

Same this year, Nathan is not our best bullpen pitcher. In fact, he's probably not even top 3 with Soria arriving. Let him get some low pressure work in, bring him in in the 6th or 7th innings, maybe that's what he needs....to focus not on whether or not he will blow the game, but just getting 3 outs as economically as possible. Let Joba and Soria handle the 8th and 9th, and as far as I'm concerned, either could do either job, and far better than Nathan.

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Certain pitchers have problems pitching from the set. Hence, there difficulties come when they enter the game with runners on base. Some pitchers actually do better from the set.

Obviously, the windup is the preferred for all. But there are just some relievers who do extremely poor from the set. And or poorly from the windup. (look at the pitcher splits with runners on and no one on).

Ausmus and Lelyand both tend to always bring relievers in when there are men on base. In some instances (not all), it is just a matter of starting the next inning off with a new pitcher, or let the guy pitch themselves out of trouble. I believe Ausmus is "over-managing" the pen in this instance.

Recently, a starter was into the 7th inning. He had recorded two outs and just walked a hitter. So it was 2 outs and 1 man on. The reliever comes in and immediately gives up a single. What harm would have done to have the starter pitch to that batter and see if he could get out of the inning?

I trust our starters to pitch out of a jam more than I do any of our relievers. However, certain relievers excel in certain situations. The key is for our manager to set everyone up for success. I believe he is doing the opposite.

So who's gone to make room for Soria anyway?

gotime909 said:

So who's gone to make room for Soria anyway?

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the unreal thing

gotime909 said:

So who's gone to make room for Soria anyway?

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Knebel was on the 25 man roster.

gotime909 said:

So who's gone to make room for Soria anyway?

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Shit, forgot Knebel was back up

SouthOfMackinac said:

Knebel was on the 25 man roster.

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Just remembered that.