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Ian Kinsler All-Star 2014

Not that simple, depends on more data. My point was I rather have 80 hits and 40 walks than 80 hits and 10 walks. Sounds simple enough which I don't understand why I was attacked.

As I said many times, I rather have them than not..

Well of course a walk is better than nothing. I'm just trying to get a gauge as to where some people value hits/walks. My feelings are that hits are much more valuable than walks because there are more variables that can happen(XBH's, moving unforced runners, fielding and throwing errors...). Whereas a walk is just a walk.

Obviously 50 hits is better than 50 walks. What I'm curious about is if a player had 50 hits and 10 walks, how many walks would it take for a player with 20 hits to be considered more productive at the plate. Same pa's and power %'s.

Also, this is not directed at only you. I'd like to hear what others have to say too.
 
Well of course a walk is better than nothing. I'm just trying to get a gauge as to where some people value hits/walks. My feelings are that hits are much more valuable than walks because there are more variables that can happen(XBH's, moving unforced runners, fielding and throwing errors...). Whereas a walk is just a walk.

Obviously 50 hits is better than 50 walks. What I'm curious about is if a player had 50 hits and 10 walks, how many walks would it take for a player with 20 hits to be considered more productive at the plate. Same pa's and power %'s.

Also, this is not directed at only you. I'd like to hear what others have to say too.



The numbers you posted make it hard to qualify except in a limited way. And in that limited way, obviously most would take the 90 hits.

In most cases yes, a hit is preferable to a walk, but most times a walk is the product of a PA where the opportunity for a hit may not have existed; like nothing in a good hitting zone.
 
It's not as easy as saying 50 hits is better than 50 walks. Walk with the bases loaded, for example, better than a bases empty single. Bases empty for both, 9 pitch walk is better than a 4 pitch single (the pitchers work more).

It's not black and white..
 
I would say it depends where in the batting order the player taking a bunch of walks is at. 3,4,5 hitters should be swinging away.

I guess the perfect player the best of both worlds would be Jose Bautista. He hits for massive power bats 3rd in the order takes close to 100 walks and only strikes out 115 times a year. Has a decent Batting average and an off the charts OBP.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/5890/jose-bautista
 
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I would say it depends where in the batting order the player taking a bunch of walks is at. 3,4,5 hitters should be swinging away.

I guess the perfect player the best of both worlds would be Jose Bautista. He hits for massive power bats 3rd in the order takes close to 100 walks and only strikes out 115 times a year. Has a decent Batting average and an off the charts OBP.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/5890/jose-bautista



Barry Bonds hit 3rd most of his career and he walked more than anyone in history. I doubt anyone on the world could make a case for him not swinging away enough.
 
Barry Bonds hit 3rd most of his career and he walked more than anyone in history. I doubt anyone on the world could make a case for him not swinging away enough.

Everyone was afraid to pitch to Barry Bonds. If the other team throws the ball where he can't hit it, he is forced to take the walk.
 
Everyone was afraid to pitch to Barry Bonds. If the other team throws the ball where he can't hit it, he is forced to take the walk.


Many 3-4-5 hitters get pitched the same way. Some of Bonds walks were the intentional, or the old unintentional-intentionals, but he also had a great eye, can't take that away from him 'roids or pitcher fear notwithstanding.
 
It's really a team by team situation. The philosophy of the team. The revenue of the team, and salary the owner is willing to pay out.

Luckily we have a great owner that is willing to spend the money to get good players.

But with the A's its focus is the team's analytical, evidence-based, sabermetric approach to assembling a competitive baseball team, despite Oakland's disadvantaged revenue situation.

Basically it all comes down to money
 
The A's have a good philosophy and put a good team on the field almost every year.

Some might say with the low number spent on team salary. Combined with being in the playoffs almost every year. Could be the best run team in baseball.

It's all a matter of opinion.
 
So back to walks. With everyone from the worst being Swisher and the best being Bautista, and everyone else between.

It IMO is a player by player situation. No one is wrong. Arguments can be made and opinions given. I guess at the end of the day its all about winning a championship.

Something that has eluded both the Tigers and A's.
 
No offense but you changed your opinion several times, this page alone.
 
*Looks at thread title. Scared to open, but does anyway. Reads each page. Shakes head and walks away slowly until out of sight. Turns around and hits a full out sprint to another section*
 
*Looks at thread title. Scared to open, but does anyway. Reads each page. Shakes head and walks away slowly until out of sight. Turns around and hits a full out sprint to another section*

:ashamed:
 
No offense but you changed your opinion several times, this page alone.

That's what this debate does. I can't make up my mind on it when you dig deep into each player and team.

Like Joey Votto for instance. The guy hits in a small ballpark but the walks he takes actually hurt his team.

24 hr's in 162 games with only 73 RBI? WTF.... I am starting to get really baffled. How does that happen?

He was billed as a slugger when he first came into the league. But he doesn't hit many HR's anymore.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/28670/joey-votto
 
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Joey Votto is one guy I have to say needs to stop being so selective. He does hurt his team by doing so. I remember Dusty Baker telling him he needs to swing more. Walks are great, but with guys on base, you could be hitting those nibblers slightly off the plate into the gaps over over the wall in some cases. His RBI total is ridiculous for a 1st baseman with a .900+ OPS, and not in a good way.
 
if you're not getting on base you are getting out. Outs end innings, walks don't.

24 homers and 73 RBI reflects guys not getting on in front of Votto more than it is a ding against him. I would also contend that he is swinging at HIS pitch or getting walked. That's what every player is taught. He has good knowledge of the zone. Problem is the guys behind him aren't doing the same or able to scare the pitcher into throwing to Votto. I hate the approach of blaming a team's struggles on the only guy who is doing it correctly.

Walks mean more pitches which means getting into the other team's pen early. I'll take a walk over a base hit any day for the pitch count if nothing else. Get on base and anything can happen.
 
The Kinsler / Fielder thread unfortunately got locked but there are a few gems that should be brought back around and remembered. There is a lesson to be learned about keeping one's self in check when evaluating players, regardless how much a person "knows".

"We got bent over on this deal." Thumb

"Kinsler is a joke of a player." Rebbiv

"And read all my posts. I am not upset at getting rid of Fielder. I am upset with the garbage we got in return. A bag of balls would have been better." Rebbiv (he gets two quotes since he was the most certain)

"I hope this thread gets bumped in 6 months. When everyone is bitching about Kinsler." Thumb

"Anyone that thinks Kinsler is a true all-star is kidding themselves...Nobody should think Kinsler is a great player." Thundercats

Rebbiv did say we should re-visit the thread in a year or two and I agree. Thumb wanted to talk about it six months later and his prophecy about people complaining about one of this season's top three 2nd baseman has been proven incorrect.

I'm in no way trying to start a feud so if people have a problem with these guys please don't call them morons or whatever in this thread. It was and still is a good baseball conversation. More importantly, it reflects that our comments are stored and we must own them or recant at some point so be nice and keep hyperbole to a minimum lest some jerk like me digs through the dung.
 
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