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Tigers trade Devon Travis to Jays for Anthony Gose

Yep. If nothing else, Gose might at least get on base vs RHP better than Rasmus. He did last year, at least (.329 vs .285). I'll take elite CF defense and a .329 OBP vs RHP from the 9 hole above our other options (like Rasmus.)


Also, cost: Rasmus signed for $8 million. Gose will cost 1/16th of that. If neither player is good, gimme the cheap guy at least. We still have bullpen holes to plug, and maybe a rotation spot so that Simon can fuck off to the bullpen, where he's actually fairly good. (spoiler alert: DD will probably sit on his ass the rest of the offseason)
 
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Last 3 years Away

Mi. Cabrera 117.0 RC/650 .321 BAVG .387 OBP .554 SLG .941 OPS
V. Martinez 107.0 RC/650 .316 BAVG .387 OBP .496 SLG .883 OPS
J.D. Martinez 84.9 RC/650 .284 BAVG .330 OBP .448 SLG .778 OPS
C. Rasmus 83.7 RC/650 .244 BAVG .306 OBP .458 SLG .764 OPS
T. Hunter 83.6 RC/650 .288 BAVG .322 OBP .451 SLG .773 OPS
Y. Cespedes 76.9 RC/650 .252 BAVG .294 OBP .449 SLG .743 OPS

I. Kinsler 70.1 RC/650 .256 BAVG .303 OBP .389 SLG .693 OPS
A. Avila 68.1 RC/650 .226 BAVG .322 OBP .361 SLG .683 OPS
R. Davis 67.5 RC/650 .260 BAVG .308 OBP .357 SLG .665 OPS
A. Gose 47.3 RC/650 .219 BAVG .286 OBP .297 SLG .583 OPS

The average AL player the last 3 years has seen a 25 point swing in his OPS from Home to Away. The average for DET is 61 points

OPS Difference

I. Kinsler +104
Mi. Cabrera +99
A. Gose +97
Y. Cespedes +75
R. Davis +72

A. Avila +44
T. Hunter +31

V. Martinez -14
J.D. Martinez -27
C. Rasmus -33


vs RHP

Mi. Cabrera (75.1%) .331 BAVG .391 OBP .593 SLG .984 OPS
V. Martinez 68.4%) .319 BAVG .388 OBP .483 SLG .871 OPS
C. Rasmus (72.4%) .252 BAVG .314 OBP .476 SLG .790 OPS
T. Hunter (72.8%) .295 BAVG .330 OBP .450 SLG .780 OPS
Y. Cespedes (72.0%) .264 BAVG .310 OBP .460 SLG .770 OPS
A. Avila (75.2%) .244 BAVG .351 OBP .410 SLG .761 OPS
J.D. Martinez (72.1%) .275 BAVG .319 OBP .439 SLG .758 OPS

I. Kinsler (74.1%) .254 BAVG .308 OBP .399 SLG .707 OPS
A. Gose (78.3%) .241 BAVG .316 OBP .350 SLG .666 OPS
R. Davis (66.4%) .241 BAVG .286 OBP .333 SLG .619 OPS


vs LHP

Mi. Cabrera (24.9%) .326 BAVG .430 OBP .569 SLG .999 OPS
V. Martinez (31.6%) .314 BAVG .366 OBP .520 SLG .886 OPS
R. Davis (33.6%) .320 BAVG .369 OBP .490 SLG .859 OPS
I. Kinsler (25.9%) .311 BAVG .371 OBP .475 SLG .846 OPS
T. Hunter (27.2%) .315 BAVG .365 OBP .467 SLG .832 OPS
Y. Cespedes (28.0%) .260 BAVG .330 OBP .475 SLG .805 OPS
J.D. Martinez (27.9%) .266 BAVG .321 OBP .462 SLG .783 OPS

C. Rasmus (27.6%) .210 BAVG .278 OBP .361 SLG .639 OPS
A. Avila (24.8%) .185 BAVG .275 OBP .259 SLG .534 OPS
A. Gose (21.7%) .208 BAVG .246 OBP .267 SLG .513 OPS

Away RC/650 + UZR/150 over last 3 years

Mi. Cabrera 120.9 Runs
V. Martinez 107.0 Runs

C. Rasmus 85.1 Runs
J. Iglesias 81.0 Runs
A. Dirks 80.7 Runs
Y. Cespedes 80.4 Runs
J.D. Martinez 75.5 Runs
A. Jackson 75.0 Runs
I. Kinsler 74.2 Runs
A. Avila 71.5 Runs

R. Davis 60.6 Runs
A. Gose 53.1 Runs
N. Castellanos 39.0 Runs

I am not keen on Rasmus, his low OBP and his volatility, but he is better than other options and is at least 2-4 wins better than Davis/Gose combination. Even a Rasmus/Davis combo would be better.

Players that were dealt this offseason

Heyward 114.1 Runs
Zobrist (RF) 113.9 Runs
M. Kemp 103.5 Runs (just offense)
Zobrist (2B) 100.1 Runs
Y. Grandal 91.6 Runs
S. Smith 84.9 Runs
W. Myers 84.5 Runs
 
Last 3 years Away

Mi. Cabrera 117.0 RC/650 .321 BAVG .387 OBP .554 SLG .941 OPS
V. Martinez 107.0 RC/650 .316 BAVG .387 OBP .496 SLG .883 OPS
J.D. Martinez 84.9 RC/650 .284 BAVG .330 OBP .448 SLG .778 OPS
C. Rasmus 83.7 RC/650 .244 BAVG .306 OBP .458 SLG .764 OPS
T. Hunter 83.6 RC/650 .288 BAVG .322 OBP .451 SLG .773 OPS
Y. Cespedes 76.9 RC/650 .252 BAVG .294 OBP .449 SLG .743 OPS

I. Kinsler 70.1 RC/650 .256 BAVG .303 OBP .389 SLG .693 OPS
A. Avila 68.1 RC/650 .226 BAVG .322 OBP .361 SLG .683 OPS
R. Davis 67.5 RC/650 .260 BAVG .308 OBP .357 SLG .665 OPS
A. Gose 47.3 RC/650 .219 BAVG .286 OBP .297 SLG .583 OPS

The average AL player the last 3 years has seen a 25 point swing in his OPS from Home to Away. The average for DET is 61 points

OPS Difference

I. Kinsler +104
Mi. Cabrera +99
A. Gose +97
Y. Cespedes +75
R. Davis +72

A. Avila +44
T. Hunter +31

V. Martinez -14
J.D. Martinez -27
C. Rasmus -33


vs RHP

Mi. Cabrera (75.1%) .331 BAVG .391 OBP .593 SLG .984 OPS
V. Martinez 68.4%) .319 BAVG .388 OBP .483 SLG .871 OPS
C. Rasmus (72.4%) .252 BAVG .314 OBP .476 SLG .790 OPS
T. Hunter (72.8%) .295 BAVG .330 OBP .450 SLG .780 OPS
Y. Cespedes (72.0%) .264 BAVG .310 OBP .460 SLG .770 OPS
A. Avila (75.2%) .244 BAVG .351 OBP .410 SLG .761 OPS
J.D. Martinez (72.1%) .275 BAVG .319 OBP .439 SLG .758 OPS

I. Kinsler (74.1%) .254 BAVG .308 OBP .399 SLG .707 OPS
A. Gose (78.3%) .241 BAVG .316 OBP .350 SLG .666 OPS
R. Davis (66.4%) .241 BAVG .286 OBP .333 SLG .619 OPS


vs LHP

Mi. Cabrera (24.9%) .326 BAVG .430 OBP .569 SLG .999 OPS
V. Martinez (31.6%) .314 BAVG .366 OBP .520 SLG .886 OPS
R. Davis (33.6%) .320 BAVG .369 OBP .490 SLG .859 OPS
I. Kinsler (25.9%) .311 BAVG .371 OBP .475 SLG .846 OPS
T. Hunter (27.2%) .315 BAVG .365 OBP .467 SLG .832 OPS
Y. Cespedes (28.0%) .260 BAVG .330 OBP .475 SLG .805 OPS
J.D. Martinez (27.9%) .266 BAVG .321 OBP .462 SLG .783 OPS

C. Rasmus (27.6%) .210 BAVG .278 OBP .361 SLG .639 OPS
A. Avila (24.8%) .185 BAVG .275 OBP .259 SLG .534 OPS
A. Gose (21.7%) .208 BAVG .246 OBP .267 SLG .513 OPS

Away RC/650 + UZR/150 over last 3 years

Mi. Cabrera 120.9 Runs
V. Martinez 107.0 Runs

C. Rasmus 85.1 Runs
J. Iglesias 81.0 Runs
A. Dirks 80.7 Runs
Y. Cespedes 80.4 Runs
J.D. Martinez 75.5 Runs
A. Jackson 75.0 Runs
I. Kinsler 74.2 Runs
A. Avila 71.5 Runs

R. Davis 60.6 Runs
A. Gose 53.1 Runs
N. Castellanos 39.0 Runs

I am not keen on Rasmus, his low OBP and his volatility, but he is better than other options and is at least 2-4 wins better than Davis/Gose combination. Even a Rasmus/Davis combo would be better.

Players that were dealt this offseason

Heyward 114.1 Runs
Zobrist (RF) 113.9 Runs
M. Kemp 103.5 Runs (just offense)
Zobrist (2B) 100.1 Runs
Y. Grandal 91.6 Runs
S. Smith 84.9 Runs
W. Myers 84.5 Runs

good job pulling the stats as usual but there are some things that you aren't considering.

Gose is 24 years old. He has played in 3 ML seasons mostly before the age of 24. He only has ML 552 ABs. Based on age alone, Gose is still developing which means he could get better. Finally, Rasmus makes $8M compared to Gose @$500K and under team control until 2020

I don't know if Gose will be good but with the way this team is put together they need to have $500K guys in the starting lineup.
 
good job pulling the stats as usual but there are some things that you aren't considering.

Gose is 24 years old. He has played in 3 ML seasons mostly before the age of 24. He only has ML 552 ABs. Based on age alone, Gose is still developing which means he could get better. Finally, Rasmus makes $8M compared to Gose @$500K and under team control until 2020

I don't know if Gose will be good but with the way this team is put together they need to have $500K guys in the starting lineup.


Gose

2009 Away = .244 BAVG .290 OBP .331 SLG .621 OPS 27.7 PA/BB
2010 Away = .255 BAVG .327 OBP .369 SLG .696 OPS 13.0 PA/BB
2011 Away = .226 BAVG .324 OBP .353 SLG .677 OPS 9.1 PA/BB
2012 Away = .281 BAVG .348 OBP .399 SLG .747 OPS 11.2 PA/BB
2013 Away = .222 BAVG .279 OBP .324 SLG .602 OPS 16.1 PA/BB
2014 Away = .226 BAVG .305 OBP .300 SLG .605 OPS 10.8 PA/BB

2009, 2010 and 2011 were entirely in the Minors. 2012 was most likely a fluke. And yes, he just turned 24. There is nothing in his career, minors or majors, that would indicate anything but a below average MLB player, despite his defense. So what is it that I wasn't considering?
 
Gose

2009 Away = .244 BAVG .290 OBP .331 SLG .621 OPS 27.7 PA/BB
2010 Away = .255 BAVG .327 OBP .369 SLG .696 OPS 13.0 PA/BB
2011 Away = .226 BAVG .324 OBP .353 SLG .677 OPS 9.1 PA/BB
2012 Away = .281 BAVG .348 OBP .399 SLG .747 OPS 11.2 PA/BB
2013 Away = .222 BAVG .279 OBP .324 SLG .602 OPS 16.1 PA/BB
2014 Away = .226 BAVG .305 OBP .300 SLG .605 OPS 10.8 PA/BB

2009, 2010 and 2011 were entirely in the Minors. 2012 was most likely a fluke. And yes, he just turned 24. There is nothing in his career, minors or majors, that would indicate anything but a below average MLB player, despite his defense. So what is it that I wasn't considering?

look at your own stats. From 09-11 his PA/BB improved. 12-14 in MLB he also improved his PA/BB (while in MLB) There are signs of improvement and he is only 24. In '09 he was 19. Add that to $8M compared to $500K and the fact that the Tigers need $500K contributors.
 
look at your own stats. From 09-11 his PA/BB improved. 12-14 in MLB he also improved his PA/BB (while in MLB) There are signs of improvement and he is only 24. In '09 he was 19. Add that to $8M compared to $500K and the fact that the Tigers need $500K contributors.


Seriously? You like the guy because he only costs $500k? You do know there are plenty of AAA or AAAA that can serve that function and not suck as bad, right?



Gose Minor League Walk Rates

2009 = 572 PA 17.3 PA/BB
2010 = 574 PA 13.9 PA/BB
2011 = 587 PA 9.5 PA/BB
2012 = 479 PA 10.0 PA/BB
2013 = 443 PA 11.7 PA/BB
2014 = 224 PA 13.9 PA/BB

Minors Career Total = 12.2 PA/BB
Majors Career Total = 13.1 PA/BB

After peaking his walk rate in 2011, he has regressed ever since in the Minors. Very rarely does a player of any age improve walk rates from the minors career to the majors career. And I don't believe for one minute coming to DET will help improve his Walk Rate. If anything, it will make him more of a free swinger.

Your fixation on the fact that he is only 24 and only cost $500k ignoring everything else sounds something DD would bring up.

I get the fact that we destined to be a team of stars and scrubs. But Gose is probably one of the worst offensive CFers. He isn't going to hit for average (Mendoza line) nor for any power. Speed and defense are his only two assets and that would be negated as he ages and/or has any leg issues.
 
Seriously? You like the guy because he only costs $500k? You do know there are plenty of AAA or AAAA that can serve that function and not suck as bad, right?



Gose Minor League Walk Rates

2009 = 572 PA 17.3 PA/BB
2010 = 574 PA 13.9 PA/BB
2011 = 587 PA 9.5 PA/BB
2012 = 479 PA 10.0 PA/BB
2013 = 443 PA 11.7 PA/BB
2014 = 224 PA 13.9 PA/BB

Minors Career Total = 12.2 PA/BB
Majors Career Total = 13.1 PA/BB

After peaking his walk rate in 2011, he has regressed ever since in the Minors. Very rarely does a player of any age improve walk rates from the minors career to the majors career. And I don't believe for one minute coming to DET will help improve his Walk Rate. If anything, it will make him more of a free swinger.

Your fixation on the fact that he is only 24 and only cost $500k ignoring everything else sounds something DD would bring up.

I get the fact that we destined to be a team of stars and scrubs. But Gose is probably one of the worst offensive CFers. He isn't going to hit for average (Mendoza line) nor for any power. Speed and defense are his only two assets and that would be negated as he ages and/or has any leg issues.

but you compare him to a guy that would cost $8M and had no chance of being on the Tigers due to that cost. That makes no sense.

This IS the state of the Tigers due to the stupid contract extensions for JV, Miggy and other high cost players.
 
but you compare him to a guy that would cost $8M and had no chance of being on the Tigers due to that cost. That makes no sense.

This IS the state of the Tigers due to the stupid contract extensions for JV, Miggy and other high cost players.


Re-read what I wrote Tom. I said I wasn't keen on Rasmus. Regardless of cost, Rasmus is probably 4 wins better than Gose. How much is 4 wins worth?

We traded a very good cost controlled prospect, Devon Travis for Gose on November 13th.

We then traded Porcello for 1-year worth of Cespedes on December 11th. Cespedes doesn't get us a draft pick if he isn't re-signed. Odds are, Porcello will.

Also on Decembers 11th, we traded cost controlled Suarez for a 33-yr old arbitration eligible Alfredo Simon who had a fluke season.

But we are really digressing. There was no way DD signs Rasmus this offseason based on the moves he made. Especially once he traded for Gose. I believe DD is convinced that Rajai Davis is an OK MLB CFer and he just needed a platoon partner. Peter Bourjous is a better option, but costs $1.6 Mil or so. Bourjous is way better than Gose defensively. A tad better offensively. 3 years older and about $1 Million more
 
I hope Gose can work out but the Tigers better have a plan B. because all I see is a
defensive replacement and or a pinch runner right now...
 
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I hope Gose can work out but the Tigers better have a plan B. because all I see is a
defensive replacement and or a pinch runner right now...

I see a platoon between him and Davis.

Based on 3 years

Davis vs. LH .320/.369/.859
Gose vs. RH .241/.316/.666

Based on 75% vs. RH and 25% vs LH the CF OPS would be .715 which is respectable for CF. Nothing to get excited about but respectable.
 
IMO, in baseball, players are usually who they are even at age 24. Can he improve maybe, but Gose is pretty much the same player since 2008.
 
IMO, in baseball, players are usually who they are even at age 24. Can he improve maybe, but Gose is pretty much the same player since 2008.

according to baseball prospectus the average age of players making their ML debut was 24.4 years. I kind of have a hard time believing that a player at the age of 24 "is who he is"
 
according to baseball prospectus the average age of players making their ML debut was 24.4 years. I kind of have a hard time believing that a player at the age of 24 "is who he is"

Players who were not good in the minor leagues don't suddenly turn the corner. There are exceptions of course but Gose was terrible before he got to the majors..what makes you think he can get better? Because he's only 24? You usually have an idea at that age..
 
according to baseball prospectus the average age of players making their ML debut was 24.4 years. I kind of have a hard time believing that a player at the age of 24 "is who he is"


The 24.4 was only for 2005-2009 seasons, and it was less for Centerfielders.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=13018

During that same timeframe (2005-2009), the average age of AL Rookies of The Year = 22.4

Players are who they are at around 25. Peak years are somewhere between 26-30 (26-32 in some other studies). The frontal lobe stops developing around 25. That timeframe is when the mental and physical are at the peak. After 30, the physical starts diminishing. For some, it is faster than others based on their skillsets. Speed guys tend to diminish at the rate their legs give way.

Average MLB career = 5.6 years
 
so he has 2 years to reach his peak.

now...I have never said I thought he was going to be great or even good. I have said over and over that I felt he is a platoon partner with Davis.
 
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so he has 2 years to reach his peak.

now...I have never said I thought he was going to be great or even good. I have said over and over that I felt he is a platoon partner with Davis.

I know. Just pointing out my thoughts on him..

:cheers:
 
so he has 2 years to reach his peak.

now...I have never said I thought he was going to be great or even good. I have said over and over that I felt he is a platoon partner with Davis.


But he shouldn't even be a MLB player, except as a defensive substitution. And even then, that is pushing it. And he isn't going to "peak" that much more than where he is right now.

Take Gose's Minor League stats and match them with any MLB CFers' Minor League stats. Past or present. There is no comparison to anyone other than scrubs. Gose's lone fluke season was when he was in the PCL, a known hitter's league due to all the stadiums 2,000-6,000 above sea level (think Coors Field).

PCL Locations over the recent years

Colorado Springs = 6,542 ft
Salt Lake City = 6,519 ft
Albuquerque = 5,131 ft
Reno = 4,495 ft
El Paso = 3,740 ft
Calagary = 3,428 ft
Tucson = 2,530 ft
Edmonton = 2,116 ft
Las Vegas = 1,906 ft
Oklahoma City = 1,188 ft

All of those parks are higher than all the MLB parks except Denver.

**Denver = 5,183 ft

http://www.sportsnationdivided.com/2012/03/26/called-up-but-moving-down/
 
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