buyers or sellers?

Mitchrapp · Jul 14, 2015

Thumb said:
Do you actually read the threads you post in? Several people have said they think we should be buyers, including on just 4 posts above your last.

I don't read every post. no. That's why I was asking..appreciate the answer. Thanks.

biggunsbob · Jul 14, 2015

Sell Price right now tonight after the all-star game!!!!!!! Get some ready pieces back!!!!!

hellifino · Jul 15, 2015

Mitchrapp said:
Maybe DD and MI will see this thread..I expect them to pick up marginal pieces of crap and not sell. It's not in them to sell.

I agree.some posters want to dump off Price for a couple of missing pieces, only thing missing after that is a starting rotation.

tomdalton22 · Jul 15, 2015

hellifino said:
I agree.some posters want to dump off Price for a couple of missing pieces, only thing missing after that is a starting rotation.

the Tigers are not going to sign Price after the season (if they do it will be another disastrous signing), so the only thing they will get in return is a late first round comp pick. The thinking is, if you trade Price you might be able to get more in return than one guy.

That said...I really doubt they trade him.

Rebbiv · Jul 15, 2015

hellifino said:
I agree.some posters want to dump off Price for a couple of missing pieces, only thing missing after that is a starting rotation.

A starting 3B, about 2x Starting Pitchers, about 3x relievers and especially a LH bat of some sort. And that is just to get to the 1-game Playoff Game.

hellifino · Jul 15, 2015

tomdalton22 said:
the Tigers are not going to sign Price after the season (if they do it will be another disastrous signing), so the only thing they will get in return is a late first round comp pick. The thinking is, if you trade Price you might be able to get more in return than one guy.

That said...I really doubt they trade him.

sooner or later they'll have to realize that they have to pay for a top notch pitcher,and forget about being burned by Verlander, to compete.

hellifino · Jul 15, 2015

Rebbiv said:
A starting 3B, about 2x Starting Pitchers, about 3x relievers and especially a LH bat of some sort. And that is just to get to the 1-game Playoff Game.

pitching is the name of the game. there's only a handful of real good pitchers right now, and we can't be letting our only one get away.

dubbsco · Jul 15, 2015

He's going to be leaving anyways. So why not get value for him back?

Rebbiv · Jul 15, 2015

hellifino said:
pitching is the name of the game. there's only a handful of real good pitchers right now, and we can't be letting our only one get away.

You mean like Scherzer?

Price is not resigning with DET after this season. Why on earth would we not trade him when we could actually get something for him?

hellifino · Jul 15, 2015

who said we won't resign Price? maybe they were thinking that they couldn't afford both Price and Scherzer and decided on keeping Price when the time comes.

dubbsco · Jul 15, 2015

Have you listened to some of those quotes by Price? He doesn't want to be here. He basically never talks about coming back to Detroit.

Rebbiv · Jul 15, 2015

hellifino said:
who said we won't resign Price? maybe they were thinking that they couldn't afford both Price and Scherzer and decided on keeping Price when the time comes.

Let's see...

the Tigers lost $20 Mil in 2014, even making the playoffs

In 2015, the player expenses are going to be $20 Mil more than 2014 and they will lose even more money if they miss out on the playoffs.

So, we are looking at a $40 Mil loss for 2015.

There is $111 Mil already tied to 5 players in 2016 ($108 Mil in 2017, $107 Mil in 2018 if Sanchez and Kinsler's optons are picked up). There are 5 players arbitration eligible, including J.D. Martinez (huge raise). 6 players, including Price are a Free Agent at years end. There is almost nothing on the farm that is ready to replace these 6, maybe 1 or 2 at best.

Personally, after studying the Tiger finances and attendance history, the most they should be spending on payroll is around $150 Mil. I will guarantee they will be at $130 Mil or greater with the 19 players still under contract.

Price gets a Scherzer deal (7 years @ $210 Mil). However you cut it, if DET is needing to replace 4-5 players from outside the organization, they cannot afford to pay one of them $25 Mil or more a year and still be viable.

Bottom line, if Price is signed long term, DET will have at least $130 Mil tied each year for the next 3 years to 6 players. Is that a formula for success? Have they won anything following this philosophy? Stars and scrubs.

everyoneneedsasmil · Jul 15, 2015

Fire sale.

Price and Cespedes are obvious. If someone wants JD, Victor, or Kinsler, grab someone that is actually projected to play in the future and call it a win.

The big one though, is Cabrera. Despite his massive contract, we are still talking about likely the best hitter in the game for the next 2 or 3 years. He has versatility (insofar as he'll be bad defensively at any spot) to play 1st or 3rd, and potentially even corner outfield. There are two potential playoff teams with terrible offenses in the Cubs and Mets. You have two potential contenders with giant holes at 1st base in the Nationals and Astros. If Cabrera was put on the block, you have to imagine one or two blue chip prospects would be available.

tomdalton22 · Jul 15, 2015

everyoneneedsasmil said:
Fire sale.

Price and Cespedes are obvious. If someone wants JD, Victor, or Kinsler, grab someone that is actually projected to play in the future and call it a win.

The big one though, is Cabrera. Despite his massive contract, we are still talking about likely the best hitter in the game for the next 2 or 3 years. He has versatility (insofar as he'll be bad defensively at any spot) to play 1st or 3rd, and potentially even corner outfield. There are two potential playoff teams with terrible offenses in the Cubs and Mets. You have two potential contenders with giant holes at 1st base in the Nationals and Astros. If Cabrera was put on the block, you have to imagine one or two blue chip prospects would be available.

IF they were to trade Miggy I would think that sort of trade would be during the off season. First, he is on the DL until well after the trade deadline. Second, IF they were to trade him it wouldn't be for prospects...it would have to be for good every day players that have established themselves at the ML level.

dubbsco · Jul 15, 2015

As much as I love Cabrera and how legendary he is as a Tiger, if he can bring you back two elite prospects or something else, I'd be okay with it. Not sure how much he has left in the tank, and if you are going into full resale, may as well do it.

But that's not going to happen.

hellifino · Jul 15, 2015

Rebbiv said:
Let's see...

the Tigers lost $20 Mil in 2014, even making the playoffs

In 2015, the player expenses are going to be $20 Mil more than 2014 and they will lose even more money if they miss out on the playoffs.

So, we are looking at a $40 Mil loss for 2015.

There is $111 Mil already tied to 5 players in 2016 ($108 Mil in 2017, $107 Mil in 2018 if Sanchez and Kinsler's optons are picked up). There are 5 players arbitration eligible, including J.D. Martinez (huge raise). 6 players, including Price are a Free Agent at years end. There is almost nothing on the farm that is ready to replace these 6, maybe 1 or 2 at best.

Personally, after studying the Tiger finances and attendance history, the most they should be spending on payroll is around $150 Mil. I will guarantee they will be at $130 Mil or greater with the 19 players still under contract.

Price gets a Scherzer deal (7 years @ $210 Mil). However you cut it, if DET is needing to replace 4-5 players from outside the organization, they cannot afford to pay one of them $25 Mil or more a year and still be viable.

Bottom line, if Price is signed long term, DET will have at least $130 Mil tied each year for the next 3 years to 6 players. Is that a formula for success? Have they won anything following this philosophy? Stars and scrubs.

so what if we lost 200 million since 1992 when Illitch bought the team, the team is worth over 10 times the amount he bought the team for. The guy is rich as hell and doesn't care what it cost to bring a winner here.You keep showing me the useless stats, and I'll show you how the Tigers are not gonna trade Price for a measly few million.If they did sell Price, what kind of pitching staff do we have for next year? I think we keep him and try to buy someone if the price is right, preferably a 3rd basemen and a couple of bullpen pitchers.

dubbsco · Jul 15, 2015

You either go all in with buying, or selling. Price is not coming back, period. Listen to his interviews. He doesn't want to be here.

So knowing that, and I think DD does, you have to get value for him while you still can.

Rebbiv · Jul 15, 2015

hellifino said:
so what if we lost 200 million since 1992 when Illitch bought the team, the team is worth over 10 times the amount he bought the team for. The guy is rich as hell and doesn't care what it cost to bring a winner here.You keep showing me the useless stats, and I'll show you how the Tigers are not gonna trade Price for a measly few million.If they did sell Price, what kind of pitching staff do we have for next year? I think we keep him and try to buy someone if the price is right, preferably a 3rd basemen and a couple of bullpen pitchers.

Franchise value has nothing to do with ability to carry a high payroll.

The Detroit Tigers is a business. The fact the Tigers are losing money year to year, means they are NOT spending the necessary money on player development and infrastructure. There is a reason the Tigers have one of the worst minor league systems in baseball, and it isn't all because they don't draft well.

I will say it again. We are all Tiger fans and we want them to win. I would love for them to win a few more World Series before I die. They aren't doing it this year or next without a miracle or two. And at the rate they are going, it will be 5-7 years before they will be viable again. Becoming buyers this year is only kicking the can further down the road.

biggunsbob · Jul 15, 2015

Unless we go on a massive winning streak that starts Friday I say sell and try to get younger viable starters for Price, Soria, YC, and Kinsler if anyone will take his contract.. And anybody else you guys want to dump..

Rebbiv · Jul 15, 2015

biggunsbob said:
Unless we go on a massive winning streak that starts Friday I say sell and try to get younger viable starters for Price, Soria, YC, and Kinsler if anyone will take his contract.. And anybody else you guys want to dump..

But wouldn't that be "false" hope?

We don't play KCR or MIN before the deadline. What happens if DET, KCR and MIN all start 7-0 or even 10-0 after the break and we gain no ground?

I fully expect DET to be buyers. Not that I want them to, or I think they should, but because I think DD has nothing to lose. He has no contract after this year, so it very well could be his "swan song". And then move on to another team and say, "hey, the Tigers were good when I was there".

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