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the ends justify the means for the Mars Hill Church

Michchamp

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
33,990
I just read this.

So... this Church paid a marketing firm $250K to game the NYT Bestseller list so that the Pastor's book "Real Marriage" would be on it... and this is okay because their book has an important message everyone needs to read, so a deception is justified here. leaving aside a few minor questions, like "Does this book REALLY have an important message for everyone to read?" or "Why did they cite the fact that gaming the NYT list netted them $200K if they just wanted more people to read it? Couldn't they have just given away $250K worth of copies for free?" this seems perfectly reasonable.

I'm surprised at just how easy it is to game the NYT Bestseller list. I had heard Conservative groups bulk-ordered certain books to ensure they could place that self-justifying marketing blurb "A New York Times Bestseller" on the cover, or on amazon, but I didn't know the details; I figured they just looked at the sales figures of the books on the current list, and cut a check to the publisher for whatever amount of books it would take to get on there:
The contract signed by church elder Turner ? obtained by Warren Throckmorton ? states that RSI needed the church ?to provide a minimum of 90 different addresses for shipping the books to the author?s clients for the bulk purchases. The addresses need to be spread around the country with no more than 3 addresses per state [because] the NYT bestseller list requires a minimum of 90 geographically disperse addresses.?
The article cites a claim that ?[a]ll the major bestseller lists discourage the practice and they put safeguards in place to prevent people buying their way onto the New York Times bestseller list.? ...but it doesn't sound like they try very hard.
 
I just read this.

So... this Church paid a marketing firm $250K to game the NYT Bestseller list so that the Pastor's book "Real Marriage" would be on it... and this is okay because their book has an important message everyone needs to read, so a deception is justified here. leaving aside a few minor questions, like "Does this book REALLY have an important message for everyone to read?" or "Why did they cite the fact that gaming the NYT list netted them $200K if they just wanted more people to read it? Couldn't they have just given away $250K worth of copies for free?" this seems perfectly reasonable.

I'm surprised at just how easy it is to game the NYT Bestseller list. I had heard Conservative groups bulk-ordered certain books to ensure they could place that self-justifying marketing blurb "A New York Times Bestseller" on the cover, or on amazon, but I didn't know the details; I figured they just looked at the sales figures of the books on the current list, and cut a check to the publisher for whatever amount of books it would take to get on there:
The contract signed by church elder Turner ? obtained by Warren Throckmorton ? states that RSI needed the church ?to provide a minimum of 90 different addresses for shipping the books to the author?s clients for the bulk purchases. The addresses need to be spread around the country with no more than 3 addresses per state [because] the NYT bestseller list requires a minimum of 90 geographically disperse addresses.?
The article cites a claim that ?[a]ll the major bestseller lists discourage the practice and they put safeguards in place to prevent people buying their way onto the New York Times bestseller list.? ...but it doesn't sound like they try very hard.

Deplorable. The end does not justify the means - at least in my belief system.

Can you just use actual sales to determine if a book is popular or not - I mean if you really want to know if a book deserves the NY Times bestseller list moniker?

Are you upset that you didn't think of it? I figured the end justifying the means would fit right into your secular "greater good for the most people" arguments.
 
Deplorable. The end does not justify the means - at least in my belief system.

Can you just use actual sales to determine if a book is popular or not - I mean if you really want to know if a book deserves the NY Times bestseller list moniker?
it looks like that's the problem. The NYT doesn't try very hard to ensure that it's actual sales aren't simply bulk orders going to at least 90 different locations. you have no way of knowing whether 90,000 copies sold is 90,000 individual orders, or 90 orders of 1,000 each to PO Boxes around the U.S.
Are you upset that you didn't think of it? I figured the end justifying the means would fit right into your secular "greater good for the most people" arguments.

I guess so. But I would need to find someone to bankroll the cost of gaming the NYT Bestseller list to begin with. I don't have a spare $250K laying around.

Looks like I'll have to found a mega-church of my own.
 
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Yeah, but how about if a book is selling in the millions - it would seem to me that that would indicate the authors of those books deserve the moniker.

So 60,000 books to 90 addresses would still be considered in your realm of possibilities?
 
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