Verlander Velocity Watch

[tonyballs]

Verlander isnt even an ACE.

Man!!! That gets me every time...lol.

 

[Mitchrapp]

He could go 89mph if he continues to pitch like he has. Smart pitchers, like Verlander, can win and pitch well regardless how hard he throws. They can't hit his 12-6 curve and change up so no big deal IMO.

 

[servinthed]

Bump for JV's gem today. Probably the best start to a season JV has had in his career, yet there are still people complaining. Decreased velocity to start a season does not equal less effective pitching.

 

[byco42]

I'm worried about JV's velocity when he drives his Ferrari 458 Italia. It is down from past seasons.

Actually, it does look like his velocity is falling.

 

[tigersofjustice]

Bump for JV's gem today. Probably the best start to a season JV has had in his career, yet there are still people complaining. Decreased velocity to start a season does not equal less effective pitching.

1. He's pitching against the Astros
2. Nobody is saying he is suddenly a bad pitcher or even in danger of becomming a bad pitcher.

However, decreased velocity strongly STRONGLY correlates with less effective pitching.

Just fyi, average fastball was just under 94 today, highest average FB of the season but still far lower than what is typical for him.

 

[Mitchrapp]

1. He's pitching against the Astros
2. Nobody is saying he is suddenly a bad pitcher or even in danger of becomming a bad pitcher.

However, decreased velocity strongly STRONGLY correlates with less effective pitching.

Just fyi, average fastball was just under 94 today, highest average FB of the season but still far lower than what is typical for him.

Its you against the world. JV has explained he started late this season because of how much he pitched last year. Who cares what his fast ball is, his other games weren't against the Astro's and he's been strong.

 

[gotime909]

I'm worried about JV's velocity when he drives his Ferrari 458 Italia. It is down from past seasons.

Actually, it does look like his velocity is falling.

This still makes my laugh. Especially VMart's reaction.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

He isn't touching 100mph like we're used to, but he's still pitching his ass off. I didn't think he had even close to his best stuff yesterday, and he still held them hitless into the 7th. Like others have said, I really don't care where he's maxing out if he keeps pitching like he has been.

 

[byco42]

1. He's pitching against the Astros
2. Nobody is saying he is suddenly a bad pitcher or even in danger of becomming a bad pitcher.

However, decreased velocity strongly STRONGLY correlates with less effective pitching.

Just fyi, average fastball was just under 94 today, highest average FB of the season but still far lower than what is typical for him.

That's just plain ignorant. Verlander's advanced stats say so and so does the fact that he got lit up the most when he came out throwing 95+ in inning one.

 

[byco42]

This still makes my laugh. Especially VMart's reaction.

And the ruling on that is very convoluted. Technically, it was a live ball balk, and the runner could have taken as many bases as he wanted, but I think it was decided to just give the runner second base. The ball hit the batter, but it was not a legal pitch, so that's moot. The umpire reacted in a way to suggest the ball was dead, but he should have just waved the runner to second and then looked at the ball without saying anything. In hindsight, hard to compute all that when taken by surprise like that. But umpires are supposed expect the unexpected. Easier said than done.

 

[motown1958]

That's just plain ignorant. Verlander's advanced stats say so and so does the fact that he got lit up the most when he came out throwing 95+ in inning one.

This right here is perfect explanation. When he comes up throwing hard early he gets rocked because he reverts back to a thrower instead of a pitcher. He has all of his pitches working so far and has been really dominant. He isnt throwing as hard yet but he will get up there in the later innings probably starting end of this month. This guy takes time so he doesnt wreck his arm. He is putting together a really great start and if he had gotten more run support would be 6-0. maybe 5-1 he had 1 rough day I think. but overall he is still the best in baseball and the world will see that soon when Darvish cant keep it going and Verlander can.

 

[byco42]

I also notice that the OP is not concerned that Scherzer's FB is slower in 2013 by 1.6 mph.

 

[gotime909]

And the ruling on that is very convoluted. Technically, it was a live ball balk, and the runner could have taken as many bases as he wanted, but I think it was decided to just give the runner second base. The ball hit the batter, but it was not a legal pitch, so that's moot. The umpire reacted in a way to suggest the ball was dead, but he should have just waved the runner to second and then looked at the ball without saying anything. In hindsight, hard to compute all that when taken by surprise like that. But umpires are supposed expect the unexpected. Easier said than done.

Yeah, kinda weird. So as long as a pitcher pulls his foot off the rubber, he can just drill a guy? lol

 

[deathroh]

1. He's pitching against the Astros
2. Nobody is saying he is suddenly a bad pitcher or even in danger of becomming a bad pitcher.

However, decreased velocity strongly STRONGLY correlates with less effective pitching.

Just fyi, average fastball was just under 94 today, highest average FB of the season but still far lower than what is typical for him.

I'm not sure you have a handle on what is typical. Verlander averaged under 95 in 18 of his 33 starts last year, including 7 of his first 8.

Also, Verlander had less velocity last year than in any other seaon of his career. I guess velocity doesn't correlate with effective pitching quite as STRONGLY as you believe.

 

[Thumb]

I hope this does not become another thread like Chica's Verlander is not an ACE thread, but I see similarities, and it feels like the OP is actually rooting for JV to fail, just so he can say "see; I told you so".

 

[Mitchrapp]

I think you're right Thumb. First sign of a bad game and its "see, his fastball velocity is affecting his pitching."

 

[tigersofjustice]

A whole lot of people who want farts to smell like roses in here. Comparing me to Chica is absolutely laughable. Chica made stupid arguments about Verlander not being an Ace in the face of absolutely all evidence to the contrary. I, on the other hand, simply point out one, simple, plainly obvious fact to everyone with two eyes and a brain and I get jumped on for "not getting on the bandwagon" I suppose because that's really the only thing that makes sense. I guess people really don't want their perfect images of JV disturbed in any way.

Fact is, his velocity is down, there is absolutely no disputing that, if you dispute that, well then I guess there's really no hope for your impartiality.

Fact is also plainly evidence throughout the history of pitching that lower velocity leads to negatives results for almost every pitcher ever in categories like K rate, HR/FB rate, and the like.

Fact is further that if those stats get worse pitching stats also get worse.

You can choose to believe this is not a concern. In fact at his current velocity it might not be. He might still be one of the top 5 pitchers in the league throwing 93-94 on average. However, a sudden dramatic decrease in a fastball is troublesome both because 1. it signifies possible injury 2. it could signify another problem that could lead to further fastball decreases 3. he's 30 and he could simply just be getting older and his FB velocity might continue to trend downward.

You might just want to believe against all the odds that JV is immune to pitching effectiveness decreases despite losing some velocity but I don't think that is reasonable.

As for rooting for JV to fail, are you serious? You can't possibly be that big a twat?

I want him to succeed as much as anyone, I hope he gets his full velocity back as that will inspire more confidence from me. He's still a top pitcher at 93-94 but I worry about whether he's "the best" at those levels. And I'm justified in that concern because the Tigers just gave him a lot of years and big money to pay him as "the best".

 

[Mitchrapp]

A whole lot of people who want farts to smell like roses in here. Comparing me to Chica is absolutely laughable. Chica made stupid arguments about Verlander not being an Ace in the face of absolutely all evidence to the contrary. I, on the other hand, simply point out one, simple, plainly obvious fact to everyone with two eyes and a brain and I get jumped on for "not getting on the bandwagon" I suppose because that's really the only thing that makes sense. I guess people really don't want their perfect images of JV disturbed in any way.

Fact is, his velocity is down, there is absolutely no disputing that, if you dispute that, well then I guess there's really no hope for your impartiality.

Fact is also plainly evidence throughout the history of pitching that lower velocity leads to negatives results for almost every pitcher ever in categories like K rate, HR/FB rate, and the like.

Fact is further that if those stats get worse pitching stats also get worse.

You can choose to believe this is not a concern. In fact at his current velocity it might not be. He might still be one of the top 5 pitchers in the league throwing 93-94 on average. However, a sudden dramatic decrease in a fastball is troublesome both because 1. it signifies possible injury 2. it could signify another problem that could lead to further fastball decreases 3. he's 30 and he could simply just be getting older and his FB velocity might continue to trend downward.

You might just want to believe against all the odds that JV is immune to pitching effectiveness decreases despite losing some velocity but I don't think that is reasonable.

As for rooting for JV to fail, are you serious? You can't possibly be that big a twat?

I want him to succeed as much as anyone, I hope he gets his full velocity back as that will inspire more confidence from me. He's still a top pitcher at 93-94 but I worry about whether he's "the best" at those levels. And I'm justified in that concern because the Tigers just gave him a lot of years and big money to pay him as "the best".

The one point you don't get: Verlander said he threw a lot of pitchers last season and got started late with his off-season regiment by 2 months. 2 months, brother. But I'll take his results over some artificial "lower velocity" any day.

 

[tigersofjustice]

The one point you don't get: Verlander said he threw a lot of pitchers last season and got started late with his off-season regiment by 2 months. 2 months, brother. But I'll take his results over some artificial "lower velocity" any day.

Well I hope you are right. I hope it is as simple as he didn't work out enough and now doesn't throw as hard. In that case, he might be back close to 95 next year, or maybe even this year with a bit of luck. Hopefully he stays motivated to keep working hard in the offseason after his gigantic payday. He's hyper competitive so I think he probably will, but you never know for certain.

 

[kalinecountry]

TOJ, JV did say he got a later start. Personally, I would hold judgement until around/after the all-star break and see what his velocity is at that point in time.

and to a few here, Tigersofjustice has been a knowledgeable regular Tigers poster from years ago at espn....