All time single season Tigers team

[food4thought]

For those of you who haven't noticed the series cbs sports has been running (KalineCountry posted the Tigers-relevant links in the Tigers Team Notes thread)... here it is:

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24412752/all-time-single-season-team-detroit-tigers

Let the debates begin...

 

[turok]

Looks good to me, some especially younger Tigers fans might pick '13 Scherzer over '76 Fidrych. I of course never watched Heilmann play, so would be partial to '55 Al Kaline, despite Harry's superior slashline. Al's D was studly despite his foot problems.

 

[food4thought]

Yeah, Kaline is definitely the biggest snub I can think of... must really bug KalineCountry.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Not sure it would be considered a snub. Just so many good OF in Detroit history. I know some of Kaline's career was in a pitching era. Not sure about 1923. Fidrych definitely over Max.

Edit: Not sure why they're doing a traditional DH. So many other options over Victor.

 

[kalinecountry]

It doesn't bother me F4TM. Tigers rich history of many great players and 3 of the greatest Rightfielders in ML history. Heilmann starting in 1921 'Averaged' in those odd numbered years he won the 4 batting titles .398 and is considered a top 5 all time right handed hitter in ML history.

As for Al, sure his 1955 year was fabulous, as was his 1959, and several others in the second pitchers era. I would have liked to see what he would have done in 1962 when he missed the 60 games from breaking his collarbone with a game ending catch 5/26. 29 homers and 94 rbi in exactly 100 games.

 

[turok]

No bench added, plus the BP was only comprised of 3 RPs?

Should have picked one closer, LH/RH setup, LH/RH long relief, and a LOOGY, @ the very least. Adding a bench would placate many if not most fans who were hoping to see their favorites picked but were disappointed.

So perhaps absent additional RPs, a "deeper" Tigers bench could be comprised of '55 Al Kaline, ( CF/RF) '83 Lou Whitaker, (2B) '04 Pudge Rodriguez (1B/C) '61 Rocky Colavito (LF) '49 George Kell (3B) and '06 Carlos Guillen (SS)

 

[LGRW_9]

Gotta remember the nature of this series. It's comprised of top seasons. Agree Kaline's 1955 year was right up there, but his body of work, and why we love him so much, is his consistency over so many years. Not much standard deviation there: They were almost all very good.

 

[hellifino]

Kaline got hosed.

 

[spockmaster]

Kaline got hosed.

I disagree. I absolutely love Kaline, but he never had a season as good as Heilmann's 1923.

Kaline's 1955: .340/.421/.546/.967, 162 OPS+, .423 wOBA, 156 wRC+, 8.3 bWAR
Heilmann's 1923: .403/.481/.632/1.113, 194 OPS+, .503 wOBA, 189 wRC+, 9.3 bWAR

Its absolutely no contest in favor of Heilmann. Kaline had a much better overall career, but as this is a one-season list, it has to be Heilmann.

 

[food4thought]

If I remember correctly, Kaline was known as truly outstanding in the field... know absolutely nothing about Heilman's fielding. I wonder whether Kaline would have been selected if we could better quantify the impact of defense.

I love Scherzer, but I don't think his season was truly historic... just really, really, really good.

One thing I would change about the format is that I would open up the DH position to all players, not just guys that DH'd all or most of the time.

 

[Sbee]

never mind that Cash used a corked bat in 1961, did it for one year and then was too scared he'd get caught

 

[Mitchrapp]

If I remember correctly, Kaline was known as truly outstanding in the field... know absolutely nothing about Heilman's fielding. I wonder whether Kaline would have been selected if we could better quantify the impact of defense.

I love Scherzer, but I don't think his season was truly historic... just really, really, really good.

One thing I would change about the format is that I would open up the DH position to all players, not just guys that DH'd all or most of the time.

I would suspect Heilman's defense was bad. More of a hunch.

As far as hitting, Spock mentioned, Heilman with the bat had a hellof a career. Better than Al's. At least by the numbers. Consider if Heilman played longer 3000 hits would have been a lock. Different eras though so hard to really compare.

 

[tycobb420]

Heilman could not run...he earned his nickname "Slug." Kaline was a much better fielder and probably should have been in rightfield. Mickey Cochrane 1934 should have been the catcher...he denied a Triple Crown Lou Gehrig the MVP. I recently read an article (I think it was in SI) about that. The writer basically said Cochrane's intangibles were off the charts. He not only caught, helped the pitching staff develop, but also managed.

 

[byco42]

Heilmann was 11 hits shorts of four .400+ seasons. Career dWar: -13.9. Kaline's is a net 2.5. Equalized stats would be very informative to compare Kaline and Heilmann offensively. Defensively, it's not needed.

There's a lot of research on the effectiveness a corked bat. Or lack thereof in the way of HR power. Cash would have been better off using a lighter, legal bat.

And Cash did use a corked bat in 1962 when he hit .243 and actually throughout his career by his own admission.

 

[byco42]

never mind that Cash used a corked bat in 1961, did it for one year and then was too scared he'd get caught

Objection, hearsay. Or you are just Making S--t Up.

Cash, whose personality was marked by candor and humor, confessed in later years that he used corked bats, but throughout his career, not just the magical 1961 season. Corked bats are illegal in baseball. Players seeking an edge have broken the rule for decades. (Bart Giamatti, whose short tenure as commissioner of baseball is remembered for banning Pete Rose, encouraged a fellow Yale professor to write a small, but terrific book. His conclusion was that a corked bat was a marginal substitution of mass for speed that didn't amount to much. See The Physics of Baseball, Robert K. Adair.)

 

[tycobb420]

Let's just put Inge in right field...(JUST KIDDING!)

 

[gotime909]

Objection, hearsay. Or you are just Making S--t Up.

Cash, whose personality was marked by candor and humor, confessed in later years that he used corked bats, but throughout his career, not just the magical 1961 season. Corked bats are illegal in baseball. Players seeking an edge have broken the rule for decades. (Bart Giamatti, whose short tenure as commissioner of baseball is remembered for banning Pete Rose, encouraged a fellow Yale professor to write a small, but terrific book. His conclusion was that a corked bat was a marginal substitution of mass for speed that didn't amount to much. See The Physics of Baseball, Robert K. Adair.)

Haha, I see what you did there.

seriously cluttering Up Message boards with your MSU hate.

All kidding aside, I've seen many articles debunking the power myth of a corked bat too. They all came to the same conclusion that it doesn't give you any extra power. It just gives you a lighter bat which, as you said, could have been duplicated by just using a lighter bat.

That being said, that was one hell of a fluke season.