Lions draft grades

[LKP]

First round value stopped around pick 18. They said it during the draft, Seattle's GM backed that (of course he traded away a 1st). Deep 2nd and 3rd round talent this year though. Mayhew smartly traded back and hedged his bet with Manny Ramirez too and got some extra picks.

Mayhew got the proper value with what was left. It was an A+ pick and trade down.

If LT is a good player then nothing else matters. Even if it's "bad" value which it wasn't.

 

[mhughes0021]

Answer his fucking question then. You've been dancing around it for days now lol.

not sure how many times have to say mid 2nd round before it seeps into your thick caveman skull.

 

[brewer229]

All that matters to him and his bank account is that one GM thought he was a 1st round pick. To be fair though GMs and scouts blow it all the time.

Value is tough to gauge.

The highest paid guard (average salary) makes the same as the 11th highest paid WR. Would be 10th highest tackle, 18th highest QB. 4th highest tackle. 5th highest DT.

So if Tomlinson turns out to be the best guard in the league, still doesn't necessarily mean we got the best value if Malcolm brown turns out to be the 3rd best DT in the league. 3rd DT > 1st guard...based on cap hit. Of course if he turns out to be the best guard in the league I'm sure everyone would be happy. Just shows why picking a guard may not be considered value, because guards just aren't as valuable in the league.

 

[mhughes0021]

First round value stopped around pick 18. They said it during the draft, Seattle's GM backed that (of course he traded away a 1st). Deep 2nd and 3rd round talent this year though. Mayhew smartly traded back and hedged his bet with Manny Ramirez too and got some extra picks.

Mayhew got the proper value with what was left. It was an A+ pick and trade down.

If LT is a good player then nothing else matters. Even if it's "bad" value which it wasn't.

and lkp....I agree with everything you just said and have said as much myself. If hes another warford I don't give a fuck where he was drafted. I agreed with the trade down. The ONLY thing im arguing here is that it was a reach based on his talent evaluation. He got a bump from the lions due to need and A++++ character.

 

[LKP]

and lkp....I agree with everything you just said and have said as much myself. If hes another warford I don't give a fuck where he was drafted. I agreed with the trade down. The ONLY thing im arguing here is that it was a reach based on his talent evaluation. He got a bump from the lions due to need and A++++ character.

It was not a reach though. There just wasn't enough 1st round talent left. It can't be a reach based on the situation. It's not like there was first rounders out there and Mayhew picked a 2nd round guy due to filling a need. There was only 2nd round talent left, so Mayhew picked his top 2nd round guy.

It's not a reach because there wasn't 1st round talent left.

Mayhew fills a need he gets blasted. Mayhew goes BPA with Ebron (and yes Ebron was rated higher than the needs of Lewan and Donald), he gets blasted. And 3rd weapon and speed TE was a need by the way.

 

[LKP]

And Laken is clearly talented enough for late 1st or early 2nd value. Laken reminds me of the Logan Mankins pick by the Pats in 2005.

All our mocks was just wishful thinking of nabbing a good guard in late Round 2.

 

[LKP]

And there are always many factors.
For instance Abdullah vs Coleman

Coleman had surgery and not a returner. Abdullah is very productive runner (like Coleman was too), Abdullah has more wiggle, is a returner, great character. You can see why they took Abdullah over Coleman.

 

[sggatecl]

I think people get waaaay too hung up on projections of when players will be picked. Projection is just another way of saying estimate. If a player is projected (estimated) to go in the early 2nd and gets taken VERY late in the 1st...I don't see how anyone can ramble on about value. Way too close to get your panties in a legitimate twist.

Just the same as Brown. The guy was projected to go top 25, the second he drops out of the top 25...every mother fucker on the planet thinks he MUST be the next pick for each and every team until he actually gets picked.

Why not take a second and think to yourself that NOBODY has more information on these players than the people making the picks. If MULTIPLE teams aren't picking him where he was PROJECTED (estimated) to go, there's probably a good reason. And I'm sure it wasn't because they didn't read your Draft Guru Monthly magazine that told you he was a for sure top 15 pick.

 

[brewer229]

I think people get waaaay too hung up on projections of when players will be picked. Projection is just another way of saying estimate. If a player is projected (estimated) to go in the early 2nd and gets taken VERY late in the 1st...I don't see how anyone can ramble on about value. Way too close to get your panties in a legitimate twist.

Just the same as Brown. The guy was projected to go top 25, the second he drops out of the top 25...every mother fucker on the planet thinks he MUST be the next pick for each and every team until he actually gets picked.

Why not take a second and think to yourself that NOBODY has more information on these players than the people making the picks. If MULTIPLE teams aren't picking him where he was PROJECTED (estimated) to go, there's probably a good reason. And I'm sure it wasn't because they didn't read your Draft Guru Monthly magazine that told you he was a for sure top 15 pick.

While I agree with your overall statement, the fact is GMs/Teams are really no better at picking/slotting players than a lot of fans. The number of bust should show that.

 

[LKP]

The non GM/scout "experts" (Kiper, Mayock etc), don't watch as much game tape (impossible for one person as a whole scouting department), don't have the medical reports, dont' have the interviews with coaches, don't have the wonderlic scores, don't have the one on one interviews, don't have the classroom tape study one on one sessions and don't have pre-draft visits.

Plus they really aren't as good a judge of talent (hence not a GM or scout).

 

[LKP]

While I agree with your overall statement, the fact is GMs/Teams are really no better at picking/slotting players than a lot of fans. The number of bust should show that.

I don't beleive that at all. A fans gut picks at the time will not be as good as a GM who has all the information and it's his job to do this year after year.

Maybe in one draft, but not in the long run, a fan would not build a good team.

Fans usually have several mocks too. I'm sure you are bound to get one right.

 

[sggatecl]

While I agree with your overall statement, the fact is GMs/Teams are really no better at picking/slotting players than a lot of fans. The number of bust should show that.

If fans actually picked players there would be sooooo many more busts. I'd bet my house on that. To say they're no better than fans is patting yourself, as a fan, on the back a bit too hard.

 

[mhughes0021]

I think people get waaaay too hung up on projections of when players will be picked. Projection is just another way of saying estimate. If a player is projected (estimated) to go in the early 2nd and gets taken VERY late in the 1st...I don't see how anyone can ramble on about value. Way too close to get your panties in a legitimate twist.

Just the same as Brown. The guy was projected to go top 25, the second he drops out of the top 25...every mother fucker on the planet thinks he MUST be the next pick for each and every team until he actually gets picked.

Why not take a second and think to yourself that NOBODY has more information on these players than the people making the picks. If MULTIPLE teams aren't picking him where he was PROJECTED (estimated) to go, there's probably a good reason. And I'm sure it wasn't because they didn't read your Draft Guru Monthly magazine that told you he was a for sure top 15 pick.

estimated is a great way of putting it. And when players go ahead of their estimation...what would you like that to be called. because when I label it a reach everyone freaks out and start fucking crying like little bitches.

 

[LKP]

And fans use mock drafts to form their opinions.

GMs use their own opinion.

A fan on his own without mock drafts, would do a really terrible job.

 

[LKP]

estimated is a great way of putting it. And when players go ahead of their estimation...what would you like that to be called. because when I label it a reach everyone freaks out and start fucking crying like little bitches.

It's not a reach. There was no 1st round talent left. That was just the situation. And there are plenty of estimations that had him late 1st and early 2nd I'm sure.

I'm not talking about Mayhock/Kiper. Talking about the 32 GMs.

 

[brewer229]

It's not a reach. There was no 1st round talent left. That was just the situation. And there are plenty of estimations that had him late 1st and early 2nd I'm sure.

I'm not talking about Mayhock/Kiper. Talking about the 32 GMs.

You have no clue what the 32 GMs are thinking, there is no benefit to them releasing their rankings. They let out what they want. The rest of the information you are getting come from those Kiper type people. They are using "sources". You are using an arbitrary term anyways. What does no "1st round talent" even mean?

 

[brewer229]

If fans actually picked players there would be sooooo many more busts. I'd bet my house on that. To say they're no better than fans is patting yourself, as a fan, on the back a bit too hard.

There is no way to prove it, so betting "your house" means nothing.

To say well a GM said it, so it must be close to fact is a joke. They blow picks all the time.

 

[sggatecl]

estimated is a great way of putting it. And when players go ahead of their estimation...what would you like that to be called. because when I label it a reach everyone freaks out and start fucking crying like little bitches.

A reach is taking Troy Williamson in the top 5. A reach is taking DHB at #7. A reach is taking Janikowski in the top 20.

Taking arguably the best guard in the draft ten spots sooner than he was expected (and that's being extremely generous) is not a reach.

Can you imagine this conversation?

Lombardi: Now that we've moved down to 28, I really like Tomlinson out of Duke.

Mayhew: You know Joe, I like him too but people don't project him to be drafted for another 5 or 10 picks. It's just too much of a reach. It's probably better to take someone that was projected around this spot.

Lombardi: Damn, you're probably right.

Caldwell: I hear that Malcom Brown from Texas was projected to go a while back. He'd probably be a steal right now.

Davis: I really wasn't impressed by his workouts and his interview left me wanting.

Mayhew: Yeah, but his projection is just too strong, it's too good of a steal.

 

[sggatecl]

There is no way to prove it, so betting "your house" means nothing.

To say well a GM said it, so it must be close to fact is a joke. They blow picks all the time.

There's no way to prove the fans would be just as good so you speaking or typing here means nothing. Guess we're at an impasse.

 

[brewer229]

There's no way to prove the fans would be just as good so you speaking or typing here means nothing. Guess we're at an impasse.

Guess so, but interesting you listed a bunch of GM reaches/bust. Which you think are so much smarter than everyone else. You proceeded to share your worthless opinion (your words not mine) as a fan on a guard....

Watch a lot of Duke games did you?