Michigan bike paths get money

[stonecold2136]

http://www.democratandchronicle.com...ts-for-bicycle-pedestrian-paths-/4679839/Here

Here is an idea how to get money to repair michigans highways.

Stop mismanaging the money that is already there from the gas tax. 19 cents a gallon state, 19 cents a gallon Federal is plenty. The people in office have no clue what the value of a dollar is.

How about elimination of bike paths. it costs $1600 a year for each mile for maintenance, what a waste of money.


Also do not fall for the 2 cent per dollar sales tax hike that is being proposed. This money will go to everything but the roads and get pissed away like first class tickets to fly to Washington D.C. and back, state vehicles being used as personal vehicles and being fueled by state tax dollars. on and on ect.

My idea would be to charge everyone a temporary fee for 2 years only of $99. With a guarantee in writing stating that 100% of the money will go to Michigan roads. With a paper trail showing how much revenue is generated. Also with everything documented in a public record sytem that everyone can easily look up on a .gov website.

If there is any money that is laundered/hidden/stolen, the person/persons or party responsible will get an automatic 20 years in prison and have to pay restitution(seizing of all bank accounts, housing, automobiles and personal property). This will then trigger a clause imposed by the citizens of the State of Michigan requiring every state of Michigan - Governor Senator, or State Representative past or present to forfeit all pensions and medical benefits to go to the state road fund

 

[Thumb]

Yeah, let's eliminate bike paths which encourage people to use non-carbon emitting forms of travel, get exercise, and save tons of money on gasoline/diesel costs.

Seriously what a waste of money making an alternative to the giant gas guzzling SUV's and traffic congestion.

And in case you're too slow to understand the sarcasm: derp derrrrppp deeeerrrrrppppppp

 

[Mitchrapp]

I agree that bike paths are important. The more the better imo. But Michigan roads suck..That's mostly to do with whoever is responsible suck at it..instead of doing a road the right way they spot patch it so in a few weeks they have to re-spot patch it again..over and over etc. At least in the areas I lived in..

On a side note, I drive an SUV..

 

[tinselwolverine]

There are bike paths everywhere and I would imagine their developments were all funded in some manner.

How is this news?

 

[Thumb]

I agree that bike paths are important. The more the better imo. But Michigan roads suck..That's mostly to do with whoever is responsible suck at it..instead of doing a road the right way they spot patch it so in a few weeks they have to re-spot patch it again..over and over etc. At least in the areas I lived in..

On a side note, I drive an SUV..

Michigan roads suck because of harsh winters. The frost thawing is what causes most potholes and erosion. There is no way to make a perfect Michigan road.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Michigan roads suck because of harsh winters. The frost thawing is what causes most potholes and erosion. There is no way to make a perfect Michigan road.

I've been to other harsh winter states that are much better than Michigan..New Hampshire comes to mind. I've driven across that state so unless they just did all new roads at my time of arrival..they use their money wisely.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I've been to other harsh winter states that are much better than Michigan..New Hampshire comes to mind. I've driven across that state so unless they just did all new roads at my time of arrival..they use their money wisely.

I think winters on the coasts tend to be significantly milder than the midwest. I think the oceans moderate the temperatures.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I think winters on the coasts tend to be significantly milder than the midwest. I think the oceans moderate the temperatures.

The state's not big but the coast only runs near a short distance of NH, like 15~ miles. But I understand that..But Michigan still has bad roads and I don't think it's just harsh winters.

 

[turok]

Michigan has permitted double semi-trailer truck loads of 164,000 lbs, which is twice the Federal limit for decades, and it is the highest in the nation.

Ridiculous, THEY are what is doing the most damage to our roads, plus the road repair is a racket, with crews doing resurfacing, rebuilding and patching with cheap, substandard materials so that they need to be redone over and over again in a relatively short period of time. We Michiganders have been and are being scammed.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Michigan has permitted double semi-trailer truck loads of 164,000 lbs, which is twice the Federal limit for decades, and it is the highest in the nation.

Ridiculous, THEY are what is doing the most damage to our roads, plus the road repair is a racket, with crews doing resurfacing, rebuilding and patching with cheap, substandard materials so that they need to be redone over and over again in a relatively short period of time. We Michiganders have been and are being scammed.

Right here. I think this is the cause.

 

[Michchamp]

Michigan roads suck because of harsh winters. The frost thawing is what causes most potholes and erosion. There is no way to make a perfect Michigan road.

Michigan has permitted double semi-trailer truck loads of 164,000 lbs, which is twice the Federal limit for decades, and it is the highest in the nation.

Ridiculous, THEY are what is doing the most damage to our roads, plus the road repair is a racket, with crews doing resurfacing, rebuilding and patching with cheap, substandard materials so that they need to be redone over and over again in a relatively short period of time. We Michiganders have been and are being scammed.

Right here. I think this is the cause.

the roads were pretty awful in Chicago after this winter, and this included secondary streets that don't have heavy truck traffic.

so I think it IS the freezing/thawing & salt that does it. damn, I used salt a couple times on the concrete outside my house, and I even noticed it was chipping in places, and it's only a couple years old.

but the higher load limits in Michigan certainly don't help matters. and there is a hell of a lot of corruption in road building/re-paving.

People bitch about the cost of subsidies for rail travel, but they don't do the same for roads... road building is basically a HUGE subsidy for the auto & petroleum industries. Without so many roads, including areas only really accessible BY CAR, with no sidewalks or bike lanes... you're giving a huge handout to those industries. our government could and should do a lot more to change that.

 

[biggunsbob]

I have to say it but just about every toll road I have every been on seem very well paved and maintained..

 

[Michchamp]

I have to say it but just about every toll road I have every been on seem very well paved and maintained..

We have a lot of those around Chicago, thanks to our saintly politicians handing public assets over to private investors.

they're frequently closed down or under construction as well... it's not really that great. and then on top of that you have massive bottlenecks at the toll plazas, and even with the auto-pay function, it still gets miserable at rush hour as the slower traffic that has to stop & pay merges back with the auto-pay lanes.

and the rates keep going up because... YAY they're privatized, and the consortium that owns them has a duty to maximize their profits so they raise them frequently. The Chicago Skyway (I-90 east into Indiana) is close to $10/trip now. the same tolls were $4 a couple years ago.

 

[Gulo Blue]

the roads were pretty awful in Chicago after this winter, and this included secondary streets that don't have heavy truck traffic.

so I think it IS the freezing/thawing & salt that does it. damn, I used salt a couple times on the concrete outside my house, and I even noticed it was chipping in places, and it's only a couple years old.

but the higher load limits in Michigan certainly don't help matters. and there is a hell of a lot of corruption in road building/re-paving.

People bitch about the cost of subsidies for rail travel, but they don't do the same for roads... road building is basically a HUGE subsidy for the auto & petroleum industries. Without so many roads, including areas only really accessible BY CAR, with no sidewalks or bike lanes... you're giving a huge handout to those industries. our government could and should do a lot more to change that.

Both freezing and heavy trucks stress the roads. And these loads add, so heavy trucks on roads in the spring is worse than light vehicles in spring or heavy trucks in the fall. In places where roads are under-designed for the loads they see or not replaced well beyond their design life of course it could be either thing that's the bigger problem. There are good roads and bad roads in places with lots or little heavy traffic and lot or little freezing. That there are bad roads in Chicago that don't see a lot of traffic does not mean the truck loads in SE Michigan aren't exceptional.

 

[TheVictors]

Apparently the State of CO (and many others) are privatizing roads so that our CO highway system is going to be operated by some australian company at some point.

And the deal they struck is ludicrous ...certain Revenue targets from roads that if they don't hit, the State has to make whole. And turning I-70 ...the main artery into/out of the mountains a Toll Road..?!

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2014/02/boulder_turnpike_privatization_plan_lawsuit.php

About 10yrs ago under GOP Governor Owens there was an initiative to develop better rail travel up the I-70 corridor due to the staggering population growth and overcrowded roads. The Governor shot that down quickly and instead offered a plan to widen ...a highway in the mountains.

Hmmm ....wonder why, Governor??? Oh, what's that ...you're a shill for Texas oil and they don't want highspeed trains..?

Right ...

 

[stonecold2136]

We have a lot of those around Chicago, thanks to our saintly politicians handing public assets over to private investors.

they're frequently closed down or under construction as well... it's not really that great. and then on top of that you have massive bottlenecks at the toll plazas, and even with the auto-pay function, it still gets miserable at rush hour as the slower traffic that has to stop & pay merges back with the auto-pay lanes.

and the rates keep going up because... YAY they're privatized, and the consortium that owns them has a duty to maximize their profits so they raise them frequently. The Chicago Skyway (I-90 east into Indiana) is close to $10/trip now. the same tolls were $4 a couple years ago.

Didn't Indiana sell the I-80 toll road to The Spanards and the Austrians for 100 Million dollars back in 2007

 

[stonecold2136]

Yeah, let's eliminate bike paths which encourage people to use non-carbon emitting forms of travel, get exercise, and save tons of money on gasoline/diesel costs.

Seriously what a waste of money making an alternative to the giant gas guzzling SUV's and traffic congestion.

And in case you're too slow to understand the sarcasm: derp derrrrppp deeeerrrrrppppppp

Not enough people use them to justify the cost. Rochester could have used the 1.3 Million in federal funds for resurfacing a road or Repairing an old bridge.

Also now the state of Michigan will be on the hook for the $1600 a mile per year for maintenance. That could be 2 loads of salt in the winter they may have to go without or more depending on how long the bike path is.

 

[Michchamp]

... That there are bad roads in Chicago that don't see a lot of traffic does not mean the truck loads in SE Michigan aren't exceptional.

I wasn't saying they aren't, just that I think the freezing/thawing & salt are the bigger problem.

It was a notably bad pothole season in Chicago, and we just got through a miserable winter, so I'm making the casual assumption that this has more to do with road damage than truck load. I'm not saying truck load doesn't contribute or anything like that.

 

[Michchamp]

Apparently the State of CO (and many others) are privatizing roads so that our CO highway system is going to be operated by some australian company at some point.

And the deal they struck is ludicrous ...certain Revenue targets from roads that if they don't hit, the State has to make whole. And turning I-70 ...the main artery into/out of the mountains a Toll Road..?!

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2014/02/boulder_turnpike_privatization_plan_lawsuit.php

About 10yrs ago under GOP Governor Owens there was an initiative to develop better rail travel up the I-70 corridor due to the staggering population growth and overcrowded roads. The Governor shot that down quickly and instead offered a plan to widen ...a highway in the mountains.

Hmmm ....wonder why, Governor??? Oh, what's that ...you're a shill for Texas oil and they don't want highspeed trains..?

Right ...

this is a good example of the problem. of course, I'm sure we'll find someone who doesn't want "their tax dollars" going toward rail. No... way better to give it to profitable companies to further enrich themselves. that's... fair? That's NOT government meddling?

Didn't Indiana sell the I-80 toll road to The Spanards and the Austrians for 100 Million dollars back in 2007

they sold it to a consortium of investors lead by a Spanish company. I think the owner is something like "Grupo Espana Investors SA" or something like that.

no idea what they got for it, and of course, you have to weigh that price against what the toll road could've brought in if it were publicly operated, or the price against a modest tax increase to maintain it vs. the way this company will now gouge the hell out of everyone who drives on it with skyrocketing tolls.

In Chicago, they sold a 99-year lease on the city's parking meters for $1.7 BIL, which sounds great until someone pointed out that even if the city never raised rates on the meters, they would've earned $4 BIL on the meters during that time.

these things are almost always a boondoggle.

 

[stonecold2136]

this is a good example of the problem. of course, I'm sure we'll find someone who doesn't want "their tax dollars" going toward rail. No... way better to give it to profitable companies to further enrich themselves. that's... fair? That's NOT government meddling?



they sold it to a consortium of investors lead by a Spanish company. I think the owner is something like "Grupo Espana Investors SA" or something like that.

no idea what they got for it, and of course, you have to weigh that price against what the toll road could've brought in if it were publicly operated, or the price against a modest tax increase to maintain it vs. the way this company will now gouge the hell out of everyone who drives on it with skyrocketing tolls.

In Chicago, they sold a 99-year lease on the city's parking meters for $1.7 BIL, which sounds great until someone pointed out that even if the city never raised rates on the meters, they would've earned $4 BIL on the meters during that time.

these things are almost always a boondoggle.

Ya that was a bad deal on the parking meters. Take 1.7 Billion now. Lose 2.3 Billion later