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Michigan is #5 Developing NFL Talent

FBS SCHOOL PLAYERS
Alabama 56
Ohio State 50
LSU 41
Florida 39
Michigan 33
Georgia 32
Penn State 32
Miami (Fla.) 30
Clemson 29
Notre Dame 29
Oklahoma 29
Florida State 28
Iowa 28
Washington 28
Stanford 27
Texas A&M 27
Auburn 25
Texas 25
UCLA 25
Wisconsin 25
South Carolina 24
Southern California 23
Mississippi State 21
North Carolina State 20
Temple 20
Tennessee 19
Utah 19
California 18
Nebraska 18
Virginia Tech 16
West Virginia 15
Boston College 14
Ole Miss 14
Pittsburgh 14
TCU 14
Arkansas 13
Colorado 13
Houston 13
Missouri 13
Oregon 13
Texas Tech 13
UCF 13
Wyoming 13
Boise State 12
Cincinnati 12
Kentucky 12
Michigan State 12
Vanderbilt 12
Virginia 12
 
How about we develop more wins then the teams above us. Time for Jim to stop sucking.
 
Good recruiter. Shit coach. Proof is in the pudding.

They went from 4 hour spring practices in year 1 to trips to Europe and sightseeing. He went from "meritocracy" to playing Shea Patterson over 2 guys that even other players thought deserved to be starting. He turned the No. 1 receiver and 8/9th overall player in the country and turned him into a 6th round pick. I wonder why the gap is getting wider?

Not saying that the trips aren't a great idea for the kids, I think they are. I'm sure they have been a factor in selling the program in recruiting. I'm also sure that ohio state can sell kids on winning, beating the shit out of Michigan every year and, of course, illegal benefits.

For every guy that Michigan gets drafted OSU and Bama have a player in the 1st round. Michigan is an above average program and it is not likely to be an elite program ever again unless players are allowed to be paid legally or Michigan decides to sell their soul the same way the other elites have been.
 
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Clemson is so low because they only decided to make their program Semi-professional this decade. give it a couple more years, and push Florida out of the Top 4
 
I contend that his first season was his best.

I think 2016 was.

2015 was pretty damn good though.

2017 was supposed to be the year it all came together, but it turned out to be the year it all fell apart. that was a real downer

2018 was in retrospect, solid... until Ohio State scored 62 points on us.

2019 after a rough start, give Harbaugh credit for keeping that team together and getting better each week... until Ohio State scored 56 points on us.

If it wasn't clear in 2015, it is now: All that matters in college football is paying for the best talent. A good coach can pull together a solid team, but nobody is winning championships without paying for Future NFL talent at almost every position on the field.
 
I think 2016 was.

2015 was pretty damn good though.

2017 was supposed to be the year it all came together, but it turned out to be the year it all fell apart. that was a real downer

2018 was in retrospect, solid... until Ohio State scored 62 points on us.

2019 after a rough start, give Harbaugh credit for keeping that team together and getting better each week... until Ohio State scored 56 points on us.

If it wasn't clear in 2015, it is now: All that matters in college football is paying for the best talent. A good coach can pull together a solid team, but nobody is winning championships without paying for Future NFL talent at almost every position on the field.

Michigan's 1s can match up with just about anyone in CFB. The difference is they aren't 3 deep everywhere like OSU, Bama, Clemson and Georgia. They beat Bama last year with a qb that isn't shitty. And if we learned anything last year it's that a great QB makes all the difference in the world in CFB. There's no reason Michigan should have had such terrible production from Black, Collins and DPJ in 3 years with even a competent QB.

LSU has always been loaded with skill position and OL talent. As soon as they got a great QB they stomped everyone. I get that there's maybe 1-2 of those guys in each recruiting class and you most likely have to pay for their services. But that was supposed to be Harbaugh's biggest asset and so far he's failed to produce a single above-average QB. Hell, he hasn't even been able to produce a good QB out of the guys he has recruited. Hopefully Milton changes that. He's recruited Gentry, Peters, McCaffrey, Milton and then had to scramble to get the 1200th ranked recruit in the country in the 11th hour this spring (no fault of anyone). The fact that there's about 5 combined starts at QB between those guys that played for a "QB guru" is pretty disappointing. So is the fact that each of the 2 year starters (Speight and Patterson if memory serves) regressed in year 2.

It's also really disconcerting to hear that Jim had to be convinced by the rest of the offensive staff to make the call to go with Joe over Dylan even though it was clear to everyone that Joe was the better player. I can't remember where I read that last week but it's entirely believable after hearing the same type of stuff last year about how Harbaugh treated Patterson compared to the rest of the QBs on the roster.
 
Michigan's 1s can match up with just about anyone in CFB. The difference is they aren't 3 deep everywhere like OSU, Bama, Clemson and Georgia. They beat Bama last year with a qb that isn't shitty. And if we learned anything last year it's that a great QB makes all the difference in the world in CFB. There's no reason Michigan should have had such terrible production from Black, Collins and DPJ in 3 years with even a competent QB.

LSU has always been loaded with skill position and OL talent. As soon as they got a great QB they stomped everyone. I get that there's maybe 1-2 of those guys in each recruiting class and you most likely have to pay for their services. But that was supposed to be Harbaugh's biggest asset and so far he's failed to produce a single above-average QB. Hell, he hasn't even been able to produce a good QB out of the guys he has recruited. Hopefully Milton changes that. He's recruited Gentry, Peters, McCaffrey, Milton and then had to scramble to get the 1200th ranked recruit in the country in the 11th hour this spring (no fault of anyone). The fact that there's about 5 combined starts at QB between those guys that played for a "QB guru" is pretty disappointing. So is the fact that each of the 2 year starters (Speight and Patterson if memory serves) regressed in year 2.

It's also really disconcerting to hear that Jim had to be convinced by the rest of the offensive staff to make the call to go with Joe over Dylan even though it was clear to everyone that Joe was the better player. I can't remember where I read that last week but it's entirely believable after hearing the same type of stuff last year about how Harbaugh treated Patterson compared to the rest of the QBs on the roster.

okay, but what if you're wrong?
 
okay, but what if you're wrong?

About what? I'm not advocating for firing/not renewing Jim. Not unless you have your own Ryan Day waiting in the wings. I'm just stating the obvious that he hasn't lived up to expectations. I remember the past 2 coaches and I remember how much most fans wanted Lloyd to go. I'd much rather see the results that Harbaugh has had than that. I just don't think that he should be given a free pass to stick around when he hasn't delivered a conference championship, playoff appearance or a win against Ohio State.

The alternative is that you accept that Michigan is not an elite program and just be happy with winning 10 games, getting your annual ass-kicking to your biggest rival and losing a bowl game. I just don't think that's acceptable expectations for most fans, alumni and boosters.
 
...

The alternative is that you accept that Michigan is not an elite program and just be happy with winning 10 games, getting your annual ass-kicking to your biggest rival and losing a bowl game. ...

There's another alternative: not giving a shit anymore.
 
There's another alternative: not giving a shit anymore.

Apathy is the worst thing that can happen to a program and unfortunately I think you are correct. 20 years with only 3 wins against osu has driven a lot of the fan base to that point. I remember thinking that there was no way osu could even the series in my lifetime but now it seems like it's going to happen within the next decade. In 2000 UM had a 55-34-6 record against OSU. It now stands at 58-51-6 and that is with the 2010 OSU win being vacated. It's hard to call it a rivalry anymore.
 
Apathy is the worst thing that can happen to a program and unfortunately I think you are correct. 20 years with only 3 wins against osu has driven a lot of the fan base to that point. I remember thinking that there was no way osu could even the series in my lifetime but now it seems like it's going to happen within the next decade. In 2000 UM had a 55-34-6 record against OSU. It now stands at 58-51-6 and that is with the 2010 OSU win being vacated. It's hard to call it a rivalry anymore.

It's not apathy because of that narrow context; it's apathy because the sport is so obviously rigged in favor of programs able & willing to funnel $100,000's in cash to bring in top recruits, and the NCAA has tacitly - by their inaction - approved of this.

so that's why I don't give a fuck anymore. On top of that, watching retards like Dabo Swinney and Ryan Day whine publicly about wanting their kids to play a game during a pandemic... just too much to bear this season.

But regardless, complaining our coach doesn't win more against programs that have stacked the deck against us is... I'm trying to think of a nice way to put this... help me out here...?
 
I think 2016 was.

2015 was pretty damn good though.

2017 was supposed to be the year it all came together, but it turned out to be the year it all fell apart. that was a real downer

2018 was in retrospect, solid... until Ohio State scored 62 points on us.

2019 after a rough start, give Harbaugh credit for keeping that team together and getting better each week... until Ohio State scored 56 points on us.

If it wasn't clear in 2015, it is now: All that matters in college football is paying for the best talent. A good coach can pull together a solid team, but nobody is winning championships without paying for Future NFL talent at almost every position on the field.

2016 was, IMO, the most disappointing of his tenure. Losing to IOWA, OSU and FSU after starting 9-0.
 
It's not apathy because of that narrow context; it's apathy because the sport is so obviously rigged in favor of programs able & willing to funnel $100,000's in cash to bring in top recruits, and the NCAA has tacitly - by their inaction - approved of this.

so that's why I don't give a fuck anymore. On top of that, watching retards like Dabo Swinney and Ryan Day whine publicly about wanting their kids to play a game during a pandemic... just too much to bear this season.

But regardless, complaining our coach doesn't win more against programs that have stacked the deck against us is... I'm trying to think of a nice way to put this... help me out here...?

Fuck ?em.
 
I'm not arguing that there's some way to level the playing field if the status quo doesn't change. There's not. What I am saying is that there are plenty of reasons why you can't give a free pass to the current staff and write it all off as "the other teams cheat".

Even if they are cheating, why does the staff refuse to switch up to a zone defense against OSU when their dbs clearly can't cover their receivers 1 on 1? Why is talent/merit no longer the deciding factor in who plays and who doesn't? Why are they not developing their offensive skill players? These are all legitimate questions to ask even if their competition is cheating.

And the NCAA made its stance very clear on cheating when they gave OSU a 1 year postseason ban and vacating 1 season in response to a massive scandal. A scandal that included the head coach admitting to lying repeatedly to the NCAA and knowingly playing players that were ineligible. That's when I knew it was rigged.
 
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