MLB to talk betting with owners

[biggunsbob]

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id...ized-sports-betting-needs-fresh-consideration



New commissioner Rob Manfred says it's time for Major League Baseball to give "fresh consideration" to an issue it has shunned for decades -- legalized sports betting.

"Gambling in terms of our society has changed its presence on legalization," Manfred said Thursday on ESPN's "Outside the Lines," "and I think it's important for there to be a conversation between me and the owners about what our institutional position will be."

For decades, baseball's position on sports betting has been one of utter disdain. Manfred's comments were tempered -- especially compared to NBA commissioner Adam Silver's call for federal legalization -- but represent a dramatic shift from MLB's longstanding staunch opposition.


Manfred noted that the Office of the Commissioner was formed specifically to deal with gambling, after the Chicago White Sox threw the 1919 World Series. Baseball also was rocked by a gambling scandal in 1989, when it was revealed that all-time hits leader Pete Rose had bet on baseball while managing the Cincinnati Reds. Rose was banned for life by then-commissioner Fay Vincent.

In addition, recently retired commissioner Bud Selig said in 2012 deposition testimony that he was "appalled" that New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie was attempting to legalize sports betting.

But, as Manfred noted Thursday, sports betting has rapidly become more socially acceptable. Baseball, along with the NFL, NBA and NHL, are participating in advertising and sponsorship deals with daily fantasy sports. Last March, Major League Baseball endorsed daily fantasy sports operator DraftKings as the "official mini fantasy game of MLB.com."

Silver emphasized his support of legalization in a November op-ed in The New York Times. He called on Congress to create a federal framework of regulations and allow states to authorize betting on professional sports.

In late January, Silver told ESPN The Magazine that he had spoken to the commissioners of the other major U.S. leagues about sports betting and that they all were studying the issue intensively.

"I understand the arguments that Adam made," Manfred said Thursday, "and I think the most appropriate thing for me at this point ... is to wait until I've had a chance to deal with the owners on this topic."

Approximately $725 million was wagered on baseball in 2014 at Nevada's legal sportsbooks. The American Gaming Association estimates $138.9 billion is wagered illegally on all sports annually in the U.S.

 

[tomdalton22]

he is smart. Baseball nationally is not a very popular sport. It is a regional sport where loyal fans only watch their own teams play. Legalize sports betting and more people will pay attention.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Good idea. Better than his getting rid of the shift idea.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Embrace fantasy sports and the betting culture, and you'll win more fans. Also, re-instate Rose and put him in the HOF while they are at it. Baseball is always so slow to change and adapt, it's no wonder fans disappear when there is still this stale "purist" culture who fights even the simplest things like instant replay, the DH, defensive shifts, etc. It would be nice to see MLB be a bit more trend-setting and timely on some of this stuff.

 

[Thumb]

Embrace fantasy sports and the betting culture, and you'll win more fans. Also, re-instate Rose and put him in the HOF while they are at it. Baseball is always so slow to change and adapt, it's no wonder fans disappear when there is still this stale "purist" culture who fights even the simplest things like instant replay, the DH, defensive shifts, etc. It would be nice to see MLB be a bit more trend-setting and timely on some of this stuff.

Probably wont happen. Even if they make betting legal in the future, it wont be for players/managers, and even so it was not legal when Rose was banned, changing the rules afterwards does not give him a pardon.

 

[Rebbiv]

Embrace fantasy sports and the betting culture, and you'll win more fans. Also, re-instate Rose and put him in the HOF while they are at it. Baseball is always so slow to change and adapt, it's no wonder fans disappear when there is still this stale "purist" culture who fights even the simplest things like instant replay, the DH, defensive shifts, etc. It would be nice to see MLB be a bit more trend-setting and timely on some of this stuff.

Charlie Hustle was a Hall of Fame player, just without the recognition. The National Baseball Hall of Fame is operated privately and is NOT part of MLB. However, it adopted a rule that precludes the induction of anyone on Baseball's permanent suspension list, such as Rose or Shoeless Joe Jackson. All that has to happen is for MLB to remove Rose from that list. I doubt embracing sports betting will change MLB's stance on Rose. What he did was NOT for the good of the game.

Second, I could care less for trend-setting.

Allowing sports betting is all about the money. People have been betting on MLB (or any other sport) since the beginning. It is just that MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL, etc, etc isn't/wasn't getting a piece of the pie. That is all there is to this. Just another revenue stream. They is why they embraced Fantasy Sports.

I believe that the more rampant sports betting will become, the more the "point shaving" and/or corruption will become. But hey, at least they would be trend-setting right?

We have 3 NFL teams (NE, ATL and CLE) facing losing draft picks for violating league rules. And that is without formalized sports betting. And these are just the teams that got caught. What would the landscape be if there was sports betting?

Should a known bat corker get into the HoF? What if later they changed the rules to allow having cork in a bat or even metal bats? What about "spitballers"? Did they cheat at the time and place for the offense is all you have to ask.

 

[tomdalton22]

Charlie Hustle was a Hall of Fame player, just without the recognition. The National Baseball Hall of Fame is operated privately and is NOT part of MLB. However, it adopted a rule that precludes the induction of anyone on Baseball's permanent suspension list, such as Rose or Shoeless Joe Jackson. All that has to happen is for MLB to remove Rose from that list. I doubt embracing sports betting will change MLB's stance on Rose. What he did was NOT for the good of the game.

Second, I could care less for trend-setting.

Allowing sports betting is all about the money. People have been betting on MLB (or any other sport) since the beginning. It is just that MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL, etc, etc isn't/wasn't getting a piece of the pie. That is all there is to this. Just another revenue stream. They is why they embraced Fantasy Sports.

I believe that the more rampant sports betting will become, the more the "point shaving" and/or corruption will become. But hey, at least they would be trend-setting right?

We have 3 NFL teams (NE, ATL and CLE) facing losing draft picks for violating league rules. And that is without formalized sports betting. And these are just the teams that got caught. What would the landscape be if there was sports betting?

Should a known bat corker get into the HoF? What if later they changed the rules to allow having cork in a bat or even metal bats? What about "spitballers"? Did they cheat at the time and place for the offense is all you have to ask.

How do you think allowing sports betting would increase teams breaking rules?

 

[Rebbiv]

How do you think allowing sports betting would increase teams breaking rules?

You don't think it changes anything?

And it isn't going to be the teams themselves. Who deflated the NE Balls? Who piped in the crowd noise in ATL? Who was texting to the sideline in CLE?

What about a few years ago when Minnesota Twins was accused of tampering with the MetroDome HVAC? Who was manning the controls and by who's guidance?

Where these events isolated? You don't think anyone with a large stake in the outcome couldn't pay a ballboy or a maintenance person to instigate something?

 

[tomdalton22]

You don't think it changes anything?

And it isn't going to be the teams themselves. Who deflated the NE Balls? Who piped in the crowd noise in ATL? Who was texting to the sideline in CLE?

What about a few years ago when Minnesota Twins was accused of tampering with the MetroDome HVAC? Who was manning the controls and by who's guidance?

Where these events isolated? You don't think anyone with a large stake in the outcome couldn't pay a ballboy or a maintenance person to instigate something?

All of those things were done to get a competitive edge. When something illegal is done when gambling is involved it typically is point shaving or what happened in the NBA with the ref being involved. You know how they catch this stuff...Vegas. They monitor and report these things. The more legalized gambling the better the monitoring. If you have Joey Boots betting $100K on a Yankee game and something happens to help Joey win...nobody is the wiser because nobody is monitoring it.

As far as MLB getting any money from gambling...I would assume the only way they would get more money is more interest. To my knowledge Vegas doesn't give the NFL, MLB, etc any money to allow sports bets on their sports.

 

[Rebbiv]

All of those things were done to get a competitive edge. When something illegal is done when gambling is involved it typically is point shaving or what happened in the NBA with the ref being involved. You know how they catch this stuff...Vegas. They monitor and report these things. The more legalized gambling the better the monitoring. If you have Joey Boots betting $100K on a Yankee game and something happens to help Joey win...nobody is the wiser because nobody is monitoring it.

As far as MLB getting any money from gambling...I would assume the only way they would get more money is more interest. To my knowledge Vegas doesn't give the NFL, MLB, etc any money to allow sports bets on their sports.

Currently, sports betting is illegal except in except in Nevada, Oregon, Delaware, and Montana. You can do it legally on the internet, only if you are connecting to an "offshore" sportsbook.

What the new commissioner is doing is taking a stance to say sports betting should be legalized across the nation. It is a form of getting the discussion moving.

Yeah, Vegas really helped clean up boxing and MMA <sarcasm>. Other countries have legalize sports betting and they never have corruption or point shaving. <more sarcasm>

This is no different than the notion of legalizing prostitution or marijuana and saying that it stays corruption. That is not necessarily the case. Germany has legalized prostitution and there is still corruption and illegal prostitutes. You are making assumptions without researching the core issues.

 

[tomdalton22]

Currently, sports betting is illegal except in except in Nevada, Oregon, Delaware, and Montana. You can do it legally on the internet, only if you are connecting to an "offshore" sportsbook.

What the new commissioner is doing is taking a stance to stay sports betting should be legalized across the nation. It is a form of getting the discussion moving.

Yeah, Vegas really helped clean up boxing and MMA <sarcasm>. Other countries have legalize sports betting and they never have corruption or point shaving. <more sarcasm>

This is no different than the notion of legalizing prostitution or marijuana and saying that it stays corruption. That is not necessarily the case. Germany has legalized prostitution and there is still corruption and illegal prostitutes. You are making assumptions without researching the core issues.

what core issues are you talking about?

 

[Rebbiv]

what core issues are you talking about?

How you maintain the integrity of the game given the large increase of betting/money legalizing sports betting will bring and how do you mitigate Organized Crime?

Money corrupts.

Google "sports betting corruption" and read some the the articles. Whether it is soccer or cricket in the UK, corruption will exist. What form it takes might be debatable. U.S. Organized Crime makes billions off of sports betting. Do you think they will just "give up" that money once sports betting is legalized? Not likely. Organized Crime will just move into any void created.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

You may disagree with me, Rebbiv, but I really don't care all that much about the "integrity of the game" argument. The entire landscape of sports is WAY different than when the games were invented, and drastically different than even 10, 20, or 30yrs ago. People want to see the best players on the field doing amazing things. If that means players are shooting up steroids, HGH, or whatever else they do, a lot of people don't care. I, for one, loved steroid era baseball. I loved watching the McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds HR derby type displays, the Clemens type pitchers who are studs until they are 40, etc. I thought the game was great and that MLB owes these guys a lot for bringing the game off life support after the strike. Instead, they pretend to have been ignorant to what was happening and made these guys into villains and criminals. I think that's complete B.S. I would put at least some of those players in the HOF (Bonds and Clemens for sure), just like I'd put Rose in. Instead, they change the intent of the Hall, which should be to recognize the best players and make it some hybrid of good players who happen to be "alright guys" with respect to certain moral filters, but not others.

 

[Rebbiv]

You may disagree with me, Rebbiv, but I really don't care all that much about the "integrity of the game" argument. The entire landscape of sports is WAY different than when the games were invented, and drastically different than even 10, 20, or 30yrs ago. People want to see the best players on the field doing amazing things. If that means players are shooting up steroids, HGH, or whatever else they do, a lot of people don't care. I, for one, loved steroid era baseball. I loved watching the McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds HR derby type displays, the Clemens type pitchers who are studs until they are 40, etc. I thought the game was great and that MLB owes these guys a lot for bringing the game off life support after the strike. Instead, they pretend to have been ignorant to what was happening and made these guys into villains and criminals. I think that's complete B.S. I would put at least some of those players in the HOF (Bonds and Clemens for sure), just like I'd put Rose in. Instead, they change the intent of the Hall, which should be to recognize the best players and make it some hybrid of good players who happen to be "alright guys" with respect to certain moral filters, but not others.

You're entitled to your believes.

However, I cannot condone putting a "criminal" into the HoF. Next you will be saying Lance Armstrong should get his medals back. Damn the integrity.

 

[Mitchrapp]

You're entitled to your believes.

However, I cannot condone putting a "criminal" into the HoF. Next you will be saying Lance Armstrong should get his medals back. Damn the integrity.

Of course Cycling might be the only sport where 100% cheat. With that said, I was okay with the premise of legalized betting if it helped MLB become more popular. But you did bring up some points earlier I hadn't thought of..

The steroid error was bad. MLB has its times when they lose fans, most notably after a strike, but they always get them back. We didn't need the steroid era. I hated every time I saw Sosa and Mcguire hit a home run and cringed every time I saw Bonds huge neck. We didn't need that..

 

[Rebbiv]

I do not know, there is a fair amount of "cheating" in NASCAR. And it is only "cheating" if you get caught.

Steroids, as a general rule, is illegal, especially when not being treated for a specific aliment. Sports betting is illegal unless you do it in a state that has made it lawful. Rose bet when only Nevada had legalized sports betting. MLB had rules specifically against betting.

You cannot prove adultery unless a participant confesses or you catch them in the act. Steroid use is almost the same. Unless they confess or you catch them in the act, most smart people know how to "mask" urine tests. Regardless, it is still cheating, against the law and a sign of weak morale ethics/character.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

You're entitled to your believes.

However, I cannot condone putting a "criminal" into the HoF. Next you will be saying Lance Armstrong should get his medals back. Damn the integrity.

My biggest issue w/ Lance is how he used his money and power to attack people who dared speak against him, while he was lying through his teeth. He should have just fessed up to what was going on instead of riding that lie off a cliff. He's a definite POS from that standpoint. That said, the guy was still an amazing athlete and happened to be the best of a bunch of cheaters. Sort of the Bonds scenario in that regard. Knowing how dirty cycling was and how Lance put it on the radar as a relevant sport and raised a ton of charity money in the process, I wouldn't have a big problem with him keeping his trophies.

If you haven't seen it, watch "The Armstrong Lie". Good documentary on the whole situation with Armstrong and that era of cycling.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Of course Cycling might be the only sport where 100% cheat. With that said, I was okay with the premise of legalized betting if it helped MLB become more popular. But you did bring up some points earlier I hadn't thought of..

The steroid error was bad. MLB has its times when they lose fans, most notably after a strike, but they always get them back. We didn't need the steroid era. I hated every time I saw Sosa and Mcguire hit a home run and cringed every time I saw Bonds huge neck. We didn't need that..

I think the reason it didn't bother me that much was that I view these guys as entertainers. I'm entertained by freakish displays of athleticism like hitting 70+ HRs and hitting baseballs 500ft+ like those guys were doing. I don't view these guys as role models nor do I need them as my moral compass. I get that society tends to hold them in that regard, but I just don't. I'd much rather see someone do these things clean and right, but only to a point. I don't want to watch a team full of Don Kelly "nice guy" clones.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I think the reason it didn't bother me that much was that I view these guys as entertainers. I'm entertained by freakish displays of athleticism like hitting 70+ HRs and hitting baseballs 500ft+ like those guys were doing. I don't view these guys as role models nor do I need them as my moral compass. I get that society tends to hold them in that regard, but I just don't. I'd much rather see someone do these things clean and right, but only to a point. I don't want to watch a team full of Don Kelly "nice guy" clones.

See I'm a baseball purest. I would have loved baseball in the dead ball era. A single to drive in a winning run from 2nd base excites me more than a 3 run home run.

 

[Thumb]

I think the reason it didn't bother me that much was that I view these guys as entertainers. I'm entertained by freakish displays of athleticism like hitting 70+ HRs and hitting baseballs 500ft+ like those guys were doing. I don't view these guys as role models nor do I need them as my moral compass. I get that society tends to hold them in that regard, but I just don't. I'd much rather see someone do these things clean and right, but only to a point. I don't want to watch a team full of Don Kelly "nice guy" clones.

Entertainers who were likely doing irreparable damage to their bodies by using steroids or HgH.

I'm sure the ancient Romans viewed gladiators as entertainers as well.

But as long as you're happy...