Right wing hero, Daniel Penny, indicted by Grand Jury

[Johnny68]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/daniel-penny-indicted-jordan-neely-subway-death-rcna89321

How dare we live in a country where you can't choke to death an unarmed person who hadn't laid a finger on anyone because you think he's about to cause trouble.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Why did you say right wing. How do you know..

 

[Johnny68]

Why did you say right wing. How do you know..

I think you might be misreading things. I didn't say that Daniel Penny is right wing, I said he's a hero of the right wing. Fox News has been pushing him as such since this case became the next big thing and you can see those opinions reflected all over social media.

 

[byco42]

Tragic situation from every angle. Ultimately, though, the powers who shouldn't be need such occurrences to occur on a regular basis to remain in power. It's a win-win situation for them. Intervene and you have a sensational case to leverage. Stand idle ala Kitty Genovese and you have fodder to condemn those who "did nothing."

With no attention whatsoever directed to the person who initiated the event with his reckless threats and intimidation, save to say that he was a "busker" of the subway. He was neglected and shunned by the system and his family, until he died, and, suddenly, he's a martyr. I wasn't there; I can't evaluate the actions taken to subdue the deceased, save to say that the submission hold Penny applied is different than the "choke hold" the press is posturing; coroner's report notwithstanding.

 

[Johnny68]

I wasn't there; I can't evaluate the actions taken to subdue the deceased, save to say that the submission hold Penny applied is different than the "choke hold" the press is posturing; coroner's report notwithstanding.

Anyone who has ever been trained in holds knows the difference between an "air hold" and a "blood hold". If you watch the video, you can clearly see that while there are some brief instances where the windpipe is in the elbow crease, the majority of the time his forearm is across the windpipe. A big no no unless you're trying to kill someone.

Aside from that fact, you are also ignoring the fact that the subway reached the next station, the doors opened and Penny just kept on choking rather than tossing the dude off.

Pretty clear cut case of manslaughter here.

 

[byco42]

"The death last month has been a lightning rod (italics mine) on the issues of mental health, crime and (sic) race." Source, NBC News.

Says who, except NBC News? No mention of the fact that Neely was neglected and fell through the cracks of the "system." No indictment of the governmental gears that seized and left Neely out on his own.

?People who are homeless in our subways, many of them in the throes of mental-health episodes, and that?s what I believe were some of the factors involved here. There?s consequences for behavior. I will look at it more closely to find out whether the state has a role.?

Governor Hochul.

Translation: I got mine; F-u.

 

[tomdalton22]

Anyone who has ever been trained in holds knows the difference between an "air hold" and a "blood hold". If you watch the video, you can clearly see that while there are some brief instances where the windpipe is in the elbow crease, the majority of the time his forearm is across the windpipe. A big no no unless you're trying to kill someone.

Aside from that fact, you are also ignoring the fact that the subway reached the next station, the doors opened and Penny just kept on choking rather than tossing the dude off.

Pretty clear cut case of manslaughter here.

If he thought the guy was a danger to the people around him, would it be logical to just let him off the train so he could endanger people on the subway platform?

Like BYCO said, it's a tragic ending to a bad situation. With what is reported the guy said "not afraid to go to jail for life", it isn't unreasonable to think this guy was going to harm someone.

Based on his past, that assumption was probably accurate.

"He was arrested 3 times for unprovoked assaults on women on the subway, assaulted a 68 year old man on a subway platform, and once to endangering the welfare of a child after dragging a 7 year old down a street. At the time of his death, he was subject to a 15 month "alternative to incarceration" program after pleading guilty to felony assault of a 67 year old woman whom he had punched as she exited a train station, breaking her nose and fracturing an orbital bone.

I don't know. Maybe this thing could have been avoided if he was in jail vs. being let free to terrorize people on the subway?

 

[Johnny68]

"The death last month has been a lightning rod (italics mine) on the issues of mental health, crime and (sic) race." Source, NBC News.

Says who, except NBC News? No mention of the fact that Neely was neglected and fell through the cracks of the "system." No indictment of the governmental gears that seized and left Neely out on his own.

?People who are homeless in our subways, many of them in the throes of mental-health episodes, and that?s what I believe were some of the factors involved here. There?s consequences for behavior. I will look at it more closely to find out whether the state has a role.?

Governor Hochul.

Translation: I got mine; F-u.

Nothing you said just now is in any way relevant to the case. What's your argument, that it's okay to choke a mentally ill person to death because there are too many mentally ill people walking around due to a lack of mental health care?

 

[Spartanmack]

Is that in the choke hold manual? When the train stops, you're supposed to release the person and throw them off and if you don't, it's a pretty clear case of manslaughter?

Is this because putting someone on a different platform suddenly calms them down and they're not longer a threat or because he's now someone else's problem? I'm curious because there are always other people on the platforms especially in lower Manhattan. And what do you do if the guy gets back on the same train?

There's a lot I have to learn about chokeholds on subways. If only you were there to give Mr. Penney some instructions...

 

[Johnny68]

Is that in the choke hold manual? When the train stops, you're supposed to release the person and throw them off and if you don't, it's a pretty clear case of manslaughter?

Is this because putting someone on a different platform suddenly calms them down and they're not longer a threat or because he's now someone else's problem? I'm curious because there are always other people on the platforms especially in lower Manhattan. And what do you do if the guy gets back on the same train?

There's a lot I have to learn about chokeholds on subways. If only you were there to give Mr. Penney some instructions...

How surprising that you're on the side of the choker. How very surprising.

 

[Spartanmack]

An indictment is proof of nothing and Penny is presumed innocent until proven guilty. It's not correct to say that you can't use physical force against threats of violence. You absolutely can use force to protect yourself and others from imminent bodily harm.

According to witnesses, Neely was repeating multiple threats mainly "I?m going to kill you. I?m prepared to go to jail for life, and I?m willing to die? over and over. Another witness claimed he shoved a woman getting off the train as he was boarding.

I haven't seen the video, from what I read on NBC online, it was a verbal altercation that escalated to a physical one. As far as I know the only video that exists starts after Penny has Neely in the hold.

All of this has to play out in court, but the claims of the OP re: self defense and use of physical force are clearly incorrect - just another juvenile attempt to fan the flames of his conspiracy theories about "right wingers"

Penny's going to face a trial in Manhattan most likely and after what happened with Sussman, where an obviously guilty person got off because he was on the "right" side of an issue for an uber leftist New York City jury, he's probably facing an uphill battle even if the evidence is in his favor.

 

[Spartanmack]

How surprising that you're on the side of the choker. How very surprising.

I'm not picking sides here, I'm making fun of you. That should be obvious. I didn't even mention the incident, other than to say if you were there things probably would have worked out much differently given your expertise. My post was really just about your take on subway chokeholds and how to determine if it's manslaughter.

 

[byco42]

If the jury can conclude that it would have acted in a similar situation in a similar manner, that will go a long way toward an acquittal.

Problem is, this measure of intervention is not commonly known among the general public.

 

[tomdalton22]

According to witnesses, Neely was repeating multiple threats mainly "I?m going to kill you. I?m prepared to go to jail for life, and I?m willing to die? over and over.

he was willing to die and he did. Case closed :tup:

 

[Johnny68]

I'm not picking sides here, I'm making fun of you. That should be obvious. I didn't even mention the incident, other than to say if you were there things probably would have worked out much differently given your expertise. My post was really just about your take on subway chokeholds and how to determine if it's manslaughter.

Funny how you get so triggered by someone having an opinion. The "fuck your feelings" crowd sure are a bunch of little snowflakes.

 

[Johnny68]

he was willing to die and he did. Case closed :tup:

Don't cut yourself on all that edge.

 

[tigermud]

Yes thanks for the daily reminder that the country is completely broken and on fast pace to equally assured misery for all.

 

[Johnny68]

Yes thanks for the daily reminder that the country is completely broken and on fast pace to equally assured misery for all.

The country would be a lot less broken if Republicans would get back to living in reality instead of a fantasy world where everyone is out to get them and everything they don't approve of is some vast conspiracy.

 

[byco42]

The country would be a lot less broken if Republicans would get back to living in reality instead of a fantasy world where everyone is out to get them and everything they don't approve of is some vast conspiracy.

Johnny, it's not much of a stretch to conclude that the US Government is not interested in our own best interests, just in its own best interests.

It exists to exist, and "we are the monkey", so to speak. It reminds us of that every minute of every day.

If there's a stake in the ground, it was planted on 11/22/1963, a day that I remember with considerable clarity.

I guess you are saying then that the country would be "a lot better off" if we didn't question the means and motives of our elected officials? That we simply stopped insisting for their accountability? That we surrender our judgement for theirs?

That's the antithesis of self-government, which is the entire point.

 

[Spartanmack]

Funny how you get so triggered by someone having an opinion. The "fuck your feelings" crowd sure are a bunch of little snowflakes.

Don't flatter yourself, it's literally impossible for me to be offended by someone as dumb as you. Despite the fact that everything you post is meant to trigger all the "right wing" posters, I'm not the least bit triggered or even remotely upset.

I'm merely pointing out the glaring errors in what you said, which seemed a lot more like a statement of fact than just your opinion. And in case it wasn't obvious from my earlier posts, I don't care at all if that hurts your feelings.