Sox sign Porcello to a 4 year extention

[Rebbiv]

Career 4.30 ERA, 1.36 WHIP. He's not a 20 million a year pitcher, sorry. I'll go ahead and give you the solid #3. That's about it.

Career ERA and WHIP for a 25-year old is your argument? Lame.

 

[dubbsco]

He's pitched six full seasons. Please don't give me the Matt Stafford stuff and say he can only be judged after 28 full seasons.

 

[Rebbiv]

He's pitched six full seasons. Please don't give me the Matt Stafford stuff and say he can only be judged after 28 full seasons.

I fail to see the correlation you are making?

Did Stafford become an NFL QB at 18?

Did you even read the 3 articles I posted? Did you glean anything from his ranking against other starters over the last 3 years? Or even relative to starters under the age of 25?

You are making judgements with a closed mind.

 

[dubbsco]

Not making a judgement, it's my opinion. He's a third rotation guy. He's not worth 20 million dollars a year for what he has produced at this point in his career.

He is who he is. Doesn't have dominant stuff, pitches to contact, needs a great defense behind him. I'm not a baseball stat guy, never have pretended to be. People get lost in sabermetrics and go way overboard instead of just watching what is in front of their face.

In the six seasons I saw with him in a Tiger uniform, not once did it cross my mind that this guy is deserving of 20 million a year. It's just how I feel.

 

[Rebbiv]

Not making a judgement, it's my opinion. He's a third rotation guy. He's not worth 20 million dollars a year for what he has produced at this point in his career.

He is who he is. Doesn't have dominant stuff, pitches to contact, needs a great defense behind him. I'm not a baseball stat guy, never have pretended to be. People get lost in sabermetrics and go way overboard instead of just watching what is in front of their face.

In the six seasons I saw with him in a Tiger uniform, not once did it cross my mind that this guy is deserving of 20 million a year. It's just how I feel.

We mock what we don't understand.

He doesn't need a great defense. He just cannot have the worst defense. Give him an average defense and we aren't even having this discussion.

Sabermetrics is a study of historical baseball stats and how they can be predictive in nature. It isn't an exact science, but it is more reliable than the "eye test", because it cannot be "fooled". It is objective in nature, not subjective.

You have three sports columns, from three different sources citing how this was a good deal for the Red Sox. Too many people think an effective MLB starter has to have overpowering stuff. That is not the case. In fact, the "over powering" starters tend to be prone to injuries. Give me a pitcher who can pitch, versus one that throws any day of the week.

And for the record....Porcello has had bad luck (more than any other DET Starter) with relievers allowing inherited runners to score.

Case in point. In his 4 starts in BOS, Porcello left the games with 5 runners on base in those 4 games. All 5 runners were allowed to score. A league average bullpen only allows 29%, or 1.45 runs. Big difference in 4 games. Compound that over a career, and that is huge.

Having a league average defense and league average bullpen will be a bonus.

 

[Thumb]

To the people complaining that Porcello making $20MM a year for a non-top of the rotation guy, I have to ask....do you have any idea what top of the rotation guys are going to make?

By the time Porcello's contract is up that $20MM will be a bargain.

 

[tomdalton22]

To the people complaining that Porcello making $20MM a year for a non-top of the rotation guy, I have to ask....do you have any idea what top of the rotation guys are going to make?

By the time Porcello's contract is up that $20MM will be a bargain.

well, the Tigers #2 (or #3) pitcher is going to make $28M this year!

 

[gotime909]

To the people complaining that Porcello making $20MM a year for a non-top of the rotation guy, I have to ask....do you have any idea what top of the rotation guys are going to make?

By the time Porcello's contract is up that $20MM will be a bargain.

Chris Sale and Madison Bumgarner are bargains.

Paying a contact pitcher that has never even got a vote for cy young 20+ million is wishful thinking imo

 

[Thumb]

Chris Sale and Madison Bumgarner are bargains.

Paying a contact pitcher that has never even got a vote for cy young 20+ million is wishful thinking imo

Cy Young votes? Really?

And it's not wishful thinking at all, I'm talking about the trend in salaries, which has been going up by leaps and bounds. $20MM in 4 years for a solid under 30 pitcher is not going to seem like a lot of money.

 

[Thundercats]

A pitcher makes his own luck. I keep seeing these arguments about bad defense behind Rick.. but it didn't seem to bother Doug Fister. If Rick could really pitch that well, he wouldn't get hit so hard. Ground balls induced can be used in his favor.. but what the fuck good is a ground ball if it's scorched up the middle? Rick is a mediocre pitcher.. and yes, 6 seasons is enough to judge Rick Porcello. Give me a break with that shit.

 

[gotime909]

Cy Young votes? Really?

And it's not wishful thinking at all, I'm talking about the trend in salaries, which has been going up by leaps and bounds. $20MM in 4 years for a solid under 30 pitcher is not going to seem like a lot of money.

Just saying that he's never been close to a dominate pitcher like you'd expect from a 20+ mil pitcher.

This contract is based on what he COULD do, not what he's done.

That's all I'm saying. No reason to get cunty about it. It's just my opinion.

As far as the trend of salaries increasing. It's a 4 year deal, not like it's a 10 year deal. It's not gonna suddenly jump 10 million per year on average in a couple years.

Bottom line is I think he's a 15ish mil per year pitcher and he got 20/21. Good for him!

 

[Rebbiv]

A pitcher makes his own luck. I keep seeing these arguments about bad defense behind Rick.. but it didn't seem to bother Doug Fister. If Rick could really pitch that well, he wouldn't get hit so hard. Ground balls induced can be used in his favor.. but what the fuck good is a ground ball if it's scorched up the middle? Rick is a mediocre pitcher.. and yes, 6 seasons is enough to judge Rick Porcello. Give me a break with that shit.

2012-2013 (Fister is 5 years older than Porcello

Fister 58 GS 369.3 IP 24 W 19 L 3.41 xFIP 53.1% GB 21.7% LD .316 BABIP

Porcello 61 GS 349.0 IP 23 W 20 L 3.56 xFIP 54.1% GB 22.7% LD .332 BABIP


BABIP is all about luck and/or defense. Plain and simple. Both Fister and Porcello had pretty much the same groundball rate and line drive rate, yet Porcello had 16 points higher BABIP.

 

[thehippo73]

If BABIP is all about luck then we should never use it to judge a pitcher.

 

[tonyballs]

20MIL for Ricky P is beyond dumb...

 

[Thundercats]

2012-2013 (Fister is 5 years older than Porcello

Fister 58 GS 369.3 IP 24 W 19 L 3.41 xFIP 53.1% GB 21.7% LD .316 BABIP

Porcello 61 GS 349.0 IP 23 W 20 L 3.56 xFIP 54.1% GB 22.7% LD .332 BABIP


BABIP is all about luck and/or defense. Plain and simple. Both Fister and Porcello had pretty much the same groundball rate and line drive rate, yet Porcello had 16 points higher BABIP.

Like I said, I remember Rick getting a lot of groundballs, but a lot of them were hit pretty hard. So, I think for a guy like Rick, who is susceptible to getting hit hard, a great defense would be required. Rick's numbers didn't really improve a whole lot until he added the Curve and got more strikeouts. Still, his K rate is well below league average even after the improvement. I don't believe any pitcher over-reliant on defense is worth anywhere near $20 million..

 

[manchild98]

All I know is if the Tigers gave Rick this same contract this thread would probably break the "Doug Fister traded" thread for record amount of responses.

At first I thought that was an insane number. But it does make "some" sense. He is one of the few guys who is supposedly getting a contract for his actual peak years. If Rick pitches well...like a number 2 or 3 (we'll say 2.5) then it will look like a great deal for Boston. It's all up to him. But yeah with all of the holes on the Tigers and no farm system then it would like we overpaid him.

 

[xer0]

Rick Porcello is garbage. The Sox are out of their minds giving a mediocre at best pitcher that kind of money.

 

[Rebbiv]

All I know is if the Tigers gave Rick this same contract this thread would probably break the "Doug Fister traded" thread for record amount of responses.

At first I thought that was an insane number. But it does make "some" sense. He is one of the few guys who is supposedly getting a contract for his actual peak years. If Rick pitches well...like a number 2 or 3 (we'll say 2.5) then it will look like a great deal for Boston. It's all up to him. But yeah with all of the holes on the Tigers and no farm system then it would like we overpaid him.

Exactly.

No one pretends Porcello is an ace. But he has already performed at an average level at a much younger age as most starters. Now he is entering his peak seasons. Boston is betting on that and I do not see any harm for them in doing so. Now if it was DET, that would be a different story.

 

[Rebbiv]

If BABIP is all about luck then we should never use it to judge a pitcher.

Read the article

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/pitching/babip/

I said BABIP is about defense and luck. Which it is for pitchers.

 

[thehippo73]

Read the article

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/pitching/babip/

I said BABIP is about defense and luck. Which it is for pitchers.

So you and I agree it is a bad stat to judge pitchers?