Stupid Tigers Trade Porcello for Cespedes + trade Suarez for Simple Simon from reds

[nsonnett14]

A guy like Nieuwenhuis and/or Seth Smith would be perfect. None are overly expensive and they provide even more production and value as Cespedes. They are hav

Nieuwenhuis would need a platoon partner like Rajai Davis. They would be an ideal platoon. Both in the batting order and in the field.

They are both about the same as Cespedes is ? C'mon dude , you are smarter than that . Im starting to think you just know and post numbers / stats and dont really watch or know baseball . Neither one of those clowns can hold cespedes's jock . Also like you said they would require yet another platoon , how many guys and positions can we platoon ?

 

[nsonnett14]

Guys our offense hasnt exactly been killing it the last few post season's , getting a guy like Cespedes bolsters this lineup big time . People say , oh hes a little upgrade over torii hunter , well shit i'll take that considering torii had pretty good years with us . If he gives us that upgrade , even a little bit , its big time . Instead of trashing the trade and bashing him , when most of you dont even really know much about him , why not embrace him and hope he goes out and has a career year !!!

 

[Thumb]

K, now what are his post season stats? And gee....we got to the post season and did nothibg the same as when we did with him. Did he elevate the team when cabrera went down?....no he faded into obscurity and cried about his hooker of a wife. I have plenty of an argument...

Youre argument was our offense would suffer....we ended with the best offense in baseball. Defense heavily upgraded with cabrera and kinsler vs fielder.

Stay on topic. You said Fielder didn't do shit while he was here. You were wrong.

But if you want to use post-season numbers as the basis, then Kinsler let you down big time as well. .083/.154/.083/.237 for him.

no argument at all.

 

[tomdalton22]

The difference between Price and Porcello in wins is maybe 1-2 at most, given the same run support. You are overvaluing Price and minimizing Porcello.

The only thing Shelby Miller has over Porcello is 3 years of controlability.

1 or 2 wins is not a small thing when you are talking about a pitcher. Also, in the playoffs...do you want Price or Porcello starting? There is a big difference between the two.

As far as the only thing Miller has over Porcello is 3 years of controlability...that is HUGE. Porcello will make $12M this year and only has one year left...Miller...maybe $1-$2M and very similar production...plus you have him for 2 more years. 30 GMs out of 30 will take Miller over Porcello at that price with 3 years. It isn't even close!

 

[nsonnett14]

The difference between Price and Porcello is 1-2 wins , at most .....I have heard it all now !!!

 

[nsonnett14]

Why dont you look at who pitched for who and also take into consideration how far each goes into a game . I thought wins meant nothing as far as a pitcher is concerned ?

 

[swami45]

The difference between Price and Porcello is 1-2 wins , at most .....I have heard it all now !!!

Pretty sure he is refering to wins above replacement, not actual pitcher wins. Price was 4.6 and Porcello 4.0

 

[nsonnett14]

Pretty sure he is refering to wins above replacement, not actual pitcher wins. Price was 4.6 and Porcello 4.0

Pretty sure he isnt . considering Price only has about 10 more wins in the same time frame as Porcello . Which makes it an assinine statement

 

[nsonnett14]

I guess i dont get the whole " wins for a pitcher stat is meaningless " ....last time i checked the objective was to WIN games . lol

 

[nsonnett14]

Now , i thin reliever wins cant be very deceptive , but starter wins i think is a very big stat . Just my opinion tho

 

[swami45]

I guess i dont get the whole " wins for a pitcher stat is meaningless " ....last time i checked the objective was to WIN games . lol

Its a team stat. Fister was 3-12 when we traded for him, who is more responsible for that stat? Fister or the Mariners team?

 

[nsonnett14]

I dont have the time or patients to look into it , but i wonder what the win% of a pitcher is when he throws a quality start . Imo wins still mean something , why else do you think the top winleaders of the league are always top notch pitchers ?

 

[manchild98]

I don't love this trade and I certainly don't hate this trade...not sure why this thread is already 300+ replies...except for we are all passionate about the Tigers. I do think Cespedes is an over-valued player...which is why ESPN says shit like "big bat" etc. But I know not one person here would be happy about signing Porcello to a 5 year $75 million+ deal.

I've never been a Porcello hater at all but I think he is what he is...6 years in and he is an average, young pitcher who finally had a pretty good year last year. But I also think we are selling high on him right now and that is a good thing. I see posters complain all the time about signing guys at the wrong time and this time I think we are getting good value out of Porcello. They are both rentals for a year and we go from there. But I do think we will see good value out of Cespedes hitting behind Miggy and VMart. I think he'll fit in well here and he will perform well here.

 

[nsonnett14]

I don't love this trade and I certainly don't hate this trade...not sure why this thread is already 300+ replies...except for we are all passionate about the Tigers. I do think Cespedes is an over-valued player...which is why ESPN says shit like "big bat" etc. But I know not one person here would be happy about signing Porcello to a 5 year $75 million+ deal.

I've never been a Porcello hater at all but I think he is what he is...6 years in and he is an average, young pitcher who finally had a pretty good year last year. But I also think we are selling high on him right now and that is a good thing. I see posters complain all the time about signing guys at the wrong time and this time I think we are getting good value out of Porcello. They are both rentals for a year and we go from there. But I do think we will see good value out of Cespedes hitting behind Miggy and VMart. I think he'll fit in well here and he will perform well here.

I agree with your post 100% with the exception that cespedes is over valued . I think hes gonna be a huge lift to our lineup hitting either in front of or behind Miggy and V-mart . I think the only reason this thread hit so many post's is because i , among others came on to question why everyone was bitching and moaning about this rade and the Simon trade . It seems like no matter what we do , theres a certain few who will complain for no reason . Then you got the guys like Mitch and Thumb who just piggy back those posters thoughts and just say the same things over and over . LOL


I will say there only a handful of people on here i actually give merit too and take seriously , the others are just morons that havent a clue in the world as to what we are doing . Anyway good post , again i almost agree with everyhting you said but its all good .

 

[swami45]

I dont have the time or patients to look into it , but i wonder what the win% of a pitcher is when he throws a quality start . Imo wins still mean something , why else do you think the top winleaders of the league are always top notch pitchers ?

Jared weaver has a better winning % than Sandy Koufax, Randy Johnson, and Roger Clemens. He also has the 2nd best winning pct among active pitchers and is in the top 20 all time.

That right there should show you the value of wins

 

[nsonnett14]

Jared weaver has a better winning % than Sandy Koufax, Randy Johnson, and Roger Clemens. He also has the 2nd best winning pct among active pitchers and is in the top 20 all time.

That right there should show you the value of wins

How may career wins do those pitchers have ? Each many more than Weaver , obviously . So i still dont get the point

 

[swami45]

How may career wins do those pitchers have ? Each many more than Weaver , obviously . So i still dont get the point

This is a different era, Johnson and Clemmens both pitched 20+ years. Pitchers these days with increase of injuries would be extremely lucky to pitch that long. If you want to use wins like you obviously do you have to use win pct to subjectively compare pitchers across all eras.

Simple thing is, if your an elite pitcher you will have a low era, pitch for good teams, and if lucky enough last long enough in the majors to have a very long career. All of those things together will get you on the all time win list.

But what about those pitchers that were elite that were on bad teams and had shorter careers due to injury? Does that make them less of a pitcher because they have less wins??

Doug Fister was a great pitcher on a crap team and had a carrer losing record. He plays on two good teams and pitches the exact same in terms of ability. 12-30 with seattle, 48-16 since

 

[nsonnett14]

This is a different era, Johnson and Clemmens both pitched 20+ years. Pitchers these days with increase of injuries would be extremely lucky to pitch that long. If you want to use wins like you obviously do you have to use win pct to subjectively compare pitchers across all eras.

Simple thing is, if your an elite pitcher you will have a low era, pitch for good teams, and if lucky enough last long enough in the majors to have a very long career. All of those things together will get you on the all time win list.

But what about those pitchers that were elite that were on bad teams and had shorter careers due to injury? Does that make them less of a pitcher because they have less wins??

Doug Fister was a great pitcher on a crap team and had a carrer losing record. He plays on two good teams and pitches the exact same in terms of ability. 12-30 with seattle, 48-16 since

Fister isnt a good example because when he was with seattle he was just throwing the ball , when we got him he learned how to pitch , theres a difference imo . I will agree with you to some extent in that some good pitchers are stuck on bad teams ( king felix would have way more wins had he pitched for a good team ) but i still thik wins is not being taken seriously .

 

[Thumb]

The fact that a pitcher can give up 8 runs and still get a W should tell you about using Wins as a measuring stick.

Or a pitcher can give up 1 run, on 1 hit and still get a loss.

A good pitcher on a bad team will not win as many games as the same pitcher on a good team. Lots of ways to gauge a pitcher but his W-L record is not one of them.

 

[nsonnett14]

The fact that a pitcher can give up 8 runs and still get a W should tell you about using Wins as a measuring stick.

Or a pitcher can give up 1 run, on 1 hit and still get a loss.

A good pitcher on a bad team will not win as many games as the same pitcher on a good team. Lots of ways to gauge a pitcher but his W-L record is not one of them.

Again i can agree with most of this , I dont think win - loss is a tell all for pitchers but its gotta hold some bank , no ? Like i said you can have a reliever go 8-3 and be the benefit of shitty pitching . I was wondering if a starter pitched what we call a quality start these days , what is the % of games he wins ? I dont know how to look that up , just a curious stat i was looking for .