Talent Cycle Over?

[tycobb420]

Going into this season, I thought maybe our window had closed. Our stellar season record to date and improved divisional opponents have not changed that view. I am just curious if anyone else thinks the Tigers may be on the way down for the next couple years. Or am I just drinking too much?

 

[sggatecl]

Going into this season, I thought maybe our window had closed. Our stellar season record to date and improved divisional opponents have not changed that view. I am just curious if anyone else thinks the Tigers may be on the way down for the next couple years. Or am I just drinking too much?

I said before game 1 the Tigers wouldn't make the playoffs and I stand by that. I'd love to eat crow come October but I don't see it happening.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I don't believe DD will give in to a rebuild. So as far as the "window", impossible to say.

 

[biggunsbob]

Window is closer to closing for sure but only 4 back after a eight game losing streak has me hopefully we can turn it around a tad.. We should have last night.. The American league feels real soft all around..So if we can just get in somehow i feel we have a shot.

Dreaming for sure but I want my two titles back we gagged away.. Freaking cannot believe one was way back in 2006..

 

[biggunsbob]

Like maybe its one of those years we get the wildcard and win by a walk-off to move to the playoff rounds.. luck sack there and get to the alcs and make to the world series where Sanchez after a 10-13 season throws a no-hitter followed by another shutout by Price then verlander pitches 7 solid innings and Soria closes it out in game three and in game four Simon or Greene get shelled then in game 5 they skip Sanchez for price and we have a paraded three days later!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rebbiv]

The only true stars on this them are Cabrera, Victor Martinez, Justin Verlander and David Price. Aside from heath, these guys generally perform to the level required. Now, everyone else on the team was a compete question mark before the start of the season. Everyone else.

Now, Iglesias and Soria have exceeded expectations (at least my expectations).


Possible Free Agents after the year

Price
Simon
Soria
Nathan
Chamberlain
Gorzelanny


Cespedes
Avila
R. Davis


Add to the fact is that it will be Andrew Romine's first year eligible for arbitration. I bet they let him walk than to offer him arbitration. That is 10 of the 25 players that began the season possibly not here next season. 11 if Castellanos doesn't turn things around.


I am looking forward to getting some of the hurt players back. They (and we) will get a better idea once most everyone is healthy. But certainly the offense is a team of hacks and has always gone through slumps. The bullpen has been a big surprise and the starters outside of Sanchez have been what was expected.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

As long as we have an owner who will spend to get and keep stars, the window is open. Now, to your other question, I do think that we are fairly thin in the farm system and our stars are aging, losing a step, and getting hurt more often. I think DD has done a decent job of getting a couple young players who have star potential (Iglesias being #1 on that list), or at least the potential to be good everyday players (Gose?), so all is not lost. At the same time, the cellar dweller teams in the division are seeing their high pick farm players mature into legit MLB players. Not sure if that means we'll be on the outside looking in. It's possible, but I'm not betting against the Tigers when they have as many bonafide star players as they do.

 

[tomdalton22]

As long as we have an owner who will spend to get and keep stars, the window is open. Now, to your other question, I do think that we are fairly thin in the farm system and our stars are aging, losing a step, and getting hurt more often. I think DD has done a decent job of getting a couple young players who have star potential (Iglesias being #1 on that list), or at least the potential to be good everyday players (Gose?), so all is not lost. At the same time, the cellar dweller teams in the division are seeing their high pick farm players mature into legit MLB players. Not sure if that means we'll be on the outside looking in. It's possible, but I'm not betting against the Tigers when they have as many bonafide star players as they do.

They have one "bonafide" star player.

 

[Rebbiv]

Gose has a long ways to go to be considered "potential". Iglesias' story has always been whether he will hit well enough. And while he has done it for short stretches, we have yet to see a full 162-season from him.

DET has potentially 11 roster spots they have to address for 2016. They lost money 4 of the past 5 years and probably lose money in 2015. Yeah, throwing more money away is the answer.

 

[dale675]

Ilitch bought the Detroit Tigers in 1993 for $85 million


According to Forbes the Tigers are worth 1.1 billion dollars


Why is losing 20m a year a big deal? I'm not being snarky, I honestly don't know the logistics of it. It seems like the huge rise in value would outweigh losing a measly 20m.

 

[Rebbiv]

Ilitch bought the Detroit Tigers in 1993 for $85 million


According to Forbes the Tigers are worth 1.1 billion dollars


Why is losing 20m a year a big deal? I'm not being snarky, I honestly don't know the logistics of it. It seems like the huge rise in value would outweigh losing a measly 20m.

Let's use a restaurant analogy. If Illitch bought a restaurant for $85,000, which is now worth $1.1 Mil and he has lost $100,000 over the last 5 years and probably will lose another $20,000 this year. The kitchen is a complete mess and he needs to upgrade the oven. The tables and chairs have seen better days. All while he is paying top dollar for his cooks and wait staff, some of whom are threatening to quit if they don't get more money.


Does it really matter that his franchise has increased in value?

Most other franchises make money. And I mean make money. The owners don't pocket all the profits. They re-invest back into the team. One of the costs is player development. The lack of dollars spent by the organization on player development is really stark compared to other teams.

Others will point to the fact that it isn't their money, but that is missing the point. At some point the oven, tables and chairs need upgrading. That money has to come from some place. And generally it comes at the cost of team payroll. Teams cut payroll to turn a profit. They take that profit and upgrade their infrastructure, top to bottom. Then they start adding payroll back up. This is exactly what the Houston Astros have done over the last few years. Yet, they were not as far down with lack of player development as the Tigers are.

 

[sggatecl]

Let's use a restaurant analogy. Is Illitch bought a restaurant for $85,000, which is now worth $1.1 Mil. He has lost $100,000 over the last 5 years and probably will lose another $20,000 this year. The kitchen is a complete mess and he needs to upgrade the oven. The tables and chairs have seen better days. All while he is paying top dollar for his cooks and wait staff, some of whom are threatening to quit if they don't get more money.


Does it really matter that his franchise has increased in value?

Most other franchises make money. And I mean make money. The owners don't pocket all the profits. They re-invest back into the team. One of the costs is player development. The lack of dollars spent by the organization on player development is really stark compared to other teams.

Other will point to the fact that it isn't their money, but that is missing the point. At some point the oven, tables and chairs need upgrading. That money has to come from some place. And generally it comes at the cost of team payroll. Teams cut payroll to turn a profit. They take that profit and upgrade their infrastructure, top to bottom. Then they start adding payroll back up. This is exactly what the Houston Astros have done over the last few years. Yet, they were not as far down with lack of player development as the Tigers are.

I'm glad you're eloquent enough to speak my mind for me. :cheers:

 

[dale675]

Let's use a restaurant analogy. If Illitch bought a restaurant for $85,000, which is now worth $1.1 Mil and he has lost $100,000 over the last 5 years and probably will lose another $20,000 this year. The kitchen is a complete mess and he needs to upgrade the oven. The tables and chairs have seen better days. All while he is paying top dollar for his cooks and wait staff, some of whom are threatening to quit if they don't get more money.


Does it really matter that his franchise has increased in value?

Most other franchises make money. And I mean make money. The owners don't pocket all the profits. They re-invest back into the team. One of the costs is player development. The lack of dollars spent by the organization on player development is really stark compared to other teams.

Others will point to the fact that it isn't their money, but that is missing the point. At some point the oven, tables and chairs need upgrading. That money has to come from some place. And generally it comes at the cost of team payroll. Teams cut payroll to turn a profit. They take that profit and upgrade their infrastructure, top to bottom. Then they start adding payroll back up. This is exactly what the Houston Astros have done over the last few years. Yet, they were not as far down with lack of player development as the Tigers are.

Makes complete sense, thanks for taking the time to explain it!!

 

[kalinecountry]

It seems the Tigers are leaving better talent on the board and drafting players that would still be there in the next round. Is this because the scouts they have aren't as good as other teams scouts, or does it have to do with the team not wanting to spend more on signing those better players in the draft the pass on?

 

[Rebbiv]

It seems the Tigers are leaving better talent on the board and drafting players that would still be there in the next round. Is this because the scouts they have aren't as good as other teams scouts, or does it have to do with the team not wanting to spend more on signing those better players in the draft the pass on?

They are always wanting to pull a rabbit out of the hat and drafting with a "heart", rather than with a "brain". Most of their picks so far are being picked a round or two ahead of their slot. So, they would be paying more for less talent.

I saw a twitter comment to the extent Detroit is drafting like some do in fantasy leagues. They are picking based on desire and not on what the best available. I love XXX player so much, I will draft him 2 rounds early just so I can get him. Meanwhile, all the other teams are drafting the better players.

In the end, we will hear how they liked the players they drafted (ala Robbie Ray infatuation). But can they say anything else?

 

[kalinecountry]

They are always wanting to pull a rabbit out of the hat and drafting with a "heart", rather than with a "brain". Most of their picks so far are being picked a round or two ahead of their slot. So, they would be paying more for less talent.

I saw a twitter comment to the extent Detroit is drafting like some do in fantasy leagues. They are picking based on desire and not on what the best available. I love XXX player so much, I will draft him 2 rounds early just so I can get him. Meanwhile, all the other teams are drafting the better players.

In the end, we will hear how they liked the players they drafted (ala Robbie Ray infatuation). But can they say anything else?

Thanks Kevin.
That is what I was thinking, and also have seen similar to what you wrote you read on twitter.
Very frustrating and also dumb.
I guess it would be too much to ask for them to can Chadd and the scouts who are drooling over a player that they tell DD to draft in the 2nd round instead of the 3rd, and on and on each subsequent round year in year out.