Welcome to Detroit Sports Forum!

By joining our community, you'll be able to connect with fellow fans that live and breathe Detroit sports just like you!

Get Started
  • If you are no longer able to access your account since our recent switch from vBulletin to XenForo, you may need to reset your password via email. If you no longer have access to the email attached to your account, please fill out our contact form and we will assist you ASAP. Thanks for your continued support of DSF.

Tigers looking at Lohse

Norris' back might be fucked up. Heard on the radio that he won't be available for the start of the season.
 
Losing Norris should not have required a knee-jerk reaction. He might never be a MLB starter for any period of time.

Lohse is certainly better than Pelfrey, but he has been regressing. If a pitcher is 25 years old (i.e. Matt Boyd), it is now or never.

25-years old or better (choose 3)

M. Boyd
B. Farmer
J. Ferrell
S. Greene
A. Nesbitt
B. Rondon
K. Ryan
J. Valdez
D. VerHagen

That does take into account assumed roster makers:

B. Hardy
M. Lowe
M. Pelfrey
F. Rodriguez
A. Sanchez
J. Verlander
A. Wilson
J. Wilson
J. Zimmermann
 
Losing Norris should not have required a knee-jerk reaction. He might never be a MLB starter for any period of time.

Lohse is certainly better than Pelfrey, but he has been regressing. If a pitcher is 25 years old (i.e. Matt Boyd), it is now or never.

25-years old or better (choose 3)

M. Boyd
B. Farmer
J. Ferrell
S. Greene
A. Nesbitt
B. Rondon
K. Ryan
J. Valdez
D. VerHagen

That does take into account assumed roster makers:

B. Hardy
M. Lowe
M. Pelfrey
F. Rodriguez
A. Sanchez
J. Verlander
A. Wilson
J. Wilson
J. Zimmermann

I agree that it shouldn't create a knee jerk reaction. That said...there is a chance that none of the young guys, including Norris, ever become a starter for any period of time.
 
Losing Norris should not have required a knee-jerk reaction. He might never be a MLB starter for any period of time.

Lohse is certainly better than Pelfrey, but he has been regressing. If a pitcher is 25 years old (i.e. Matt Boyd), it is now or never.

25-years old or better (choose 3)

M. Boyd
B. Farmer
J. Ferrell
S. Greene
A. Nesbitt
B. Rondon
K. Ryan
J. Valdez
D. VerHagen

That does take into account assumed roster makers:

B. Hardy
M. Lowe
M. Pelfrey
F. Rodriguez
A. Sanchez
J. Verlander
A. Wilson
J. Wilson
J. Zimmermann

I'd go with Ryan out of the pen and Greene and Boyd with Greene in long relief for time being. If Boyd doesn't pan immediately send him down and bring up a Nesbitt or Rondon depending on AAA stats.

Ryan is 24 also. 25 end of season. Boyd and Farmer both literally just turned 25.
 
I'd go with Ryan out of the pen and Greene and Boyd with Greene in long relief for time being. If Boyd doesn't pan immediately send him down and bring up a Nesbitt or Rondon depending on AAA stats.

Ryan is 24 also. 25 end of season. Boyd and Farmer both literally just turned 25.

I think Boyd is the best starting pitcher right now. I would go with him as the 5th starter.
 
I agree that it shouldn't create a knee jerk reaction. That said...there is a chance that none of the young guys, including Norris, ever become a starter for any period of time.


You don't know until you do it. Adding someone like Lohse delays or cancels that development process. Sooner or later you have to give these guys a chance to succeed and/or fail. 25/26 year olds are not long before they no longer are consider "prospects". Detroit is carrying way too many of these mature AAA types.

The same case could be made for signing the likes of Mike Aviles, where you already Dixon Machado. Or even trading for Maybin, when you have Collins, Maybin, Bernard, etc, etc. At some point, these guys are stunted in their development by not giving them adequate playing time at the MLB level.
 
You don't know until you do it. Adding someone like Lohse delays or cancels that development process. Sooner or later you have to give these guys a chance to succeed and/or fail. 25/26 year olds are not long before they no longer are consider "prospects". Detroit is carrying way too many of these mature AAA types.

The same case could be made for signing the likes of Mike Aviles, where you already Dixon Machado. Or even trading for Maybin, when you have Collins, Maybin, Bernard, etc, etc. At some point, these guys are stunted in their development by not giving them adequate playing time at the MLB level.

I agree...my point was you just never know if they will make it or not. I wouldn't have signed Pelfre or Aviles and just gone with young players.
 
You go with Greene and Fulmer as your backup. Boyd sucks and is gonna get raked. Boyd may have some success first time around but scouting reports are going to bury him.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
Boyd as your backup is the issue. We have no depth or talent. Lohse is desperation. He is a poor mans Pelfrey.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
Boyd as your backup is the issue. We have no depth or talent. Lohse is desperation. He is a poor mans Pelfrey.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

What does that mean he is a poor man's Pelfrey? Loshe is 37 and probably done as a starting pitcher (except if DET signs him), but he still be better than Pelfrey.

Profile: As of this writing, Kyle Lohse has not signed a deal of any kind to play baseball for a living. It could be possible that Lohse is waiting for right offer, but it's more likely that he's waiting for any offer. Lohse enters the 2016 season as a 37-year-old who was below replacement level in 2015. His ground ball rate has been diving, his home run has been rising, and he's walking more batters than ever. Milwaukee even relegated him to the bullpen for some of 2015. At this point, Kyle Lohse is basically a yawn personified. He may be a last-minute addition to a 25-man roster, or may even have to accept a minor-league contract. He may see an uptick in performance with a full-time move to the bullpen, but then he'd be a 37-year-old long reliever. This is most likely a better job than many, but it the prospect of it may be enough for Lohse to finally hang up his goatee -- err -- spikes. (David Temple)

The following are all groundball pitchers:

Pelfrey last 5 years Away

2011 = .363 wOBA 4.48 xFIP
2012 = .313 wOBA 3.92 xFIP
2013 = .330 wOBA 4.57 xFIP
2014 = .351 wOBA 5.71 xFIP
2015 = .388 wOBA 4.74 xFIP

Career = .365 wOBA 4.69 xFIP


Lohse last 5 years Away

2011 = .298 wOBA 3.93 xFIP
2012 = .294 wOBA 4.12 xFIP
2013 = .300 wOBA 4.18 xFIP
2014 = .319 wOBA 4.45 xFIP
2015 = .317 wOBA 4.22 xFIP

Career = .336 wOBA 4.50 xFIP


Fister last 5 years Away

2011 = .291 wOBA 3.55 xFIP
2012 = .309 wOBA 3.42 xFIP
2013 = .317 wOBA 3.61 xFIP
2014 = .337 wOBA 4.44 xFIP
2015 = .355 wOBA 4.38 xFIP

Career = .322 wOBA 3.89 xFIP


Porcello last 5 years Away

2011 = .323 wOBA 3.95 xFIP
2012 = .352 wOBA 4.04 xFIP
2013 = .310 wOBA 3.45 xFIP
2014 = .296 wOBA 3.71 xFIP
2015 = .358 wOBA 3.87 xFIP

Career = .329 wOBA 3.84 xFIP

Who they pitch to matters. Lohse has benefitted in throwing to Yadier Molina and Jonathan Lucroy over the last 5 years. Two of the better pitch framers/game callers in the game. Fister, after he left DET, has done well with Jose Lobaton, but had issues with Wilson Ramos, especially in 2015. Rick Porcello had issues throwing to Gerald Laird in 2012 and threw mostly to Rookie Blake Swihart in 2015. Having the two worst pitch framers/game callers in baseball (McCann/Saltalamacchia) are not going to help, especially for the young pitchers (Boyd, Fulmer, etc, etc). If a pitcher has issues in 2016, is it them or who they are throwing to?

Nick Castellanos and Pablo Sandoval are two of the worst defensive 3B in baseball. This certainly hasn?t helped Porcello. Infield defense is important to groundball pitchers, especially 3B defense.

3B Defense last 2 years

5th = MIL (Lohse) 6.1 UZR/150

17th = MIN (Pelfrey) 1.1 UZR/150
20th = WSN (Fister) -1.2 UZR/150

29th = DET -13.8 UZR/150
30th = BOS -16.4 UZR/150


3B Defense last 5 years

6th = MIL 5.1 UZR/150

22nd = WSN -3.6 UZR/150
24th = STL -5.1 UZR/150
27th = MIN -5.6 UZR/150
29th = BOS -10.9 UZR/150
30th = DET -11.6 UZR/150
 
All the stats Reb posted points to Detroit doing something stupid like giving him 5m/1year. If Pelfrey gets 16/2 then I can see that happening unfortunately.

I'd rather take a flyer on Lincecum who has at least been great in the past and only 31. Probably would take a 1 year deal also.
 
What does that mean he is a poor man's Pelfrey? Loshe is 37 and probably done as a starting pitcher (except if DET signs him), but he still be better than Pelfrey.

Profile: As of this writing, Kyle Lohse has not signed a deal of any kind to play baseball for a living. It could be possible that Lohse is waiting for right offer, but it's more likely that he's waiting for any offer. Lohse enters the 2016 season as a 37-year-old who was below replacement level in 2015. His ground ball rate has been diving, his home run has been rising, and he's walking more batters than ever. Milwaukee even relegated him to the bullpen for some of 2015. At this point, Kyle Lohse is basically a yawn personified. He may be a last-minute addition to a 25-man roster, or may even have to accept a minor-league contract. He may see an uptick in performance with a full-time move to the bullpen, but then he'd be a 37-year-old long reliever. This is most likely a better job than many, but it the prospect of it may be enough for Lohse to finally hang up his goatee -- err -- spikes. (David Temple)

The following are all groundball pitchers:

Pelfrey last 5 years Away

2011 = .363 wOBA 4.48 xFIP
2012 = .313 wOBA 3.92 xFIP
2013 = .330 wOBA 4.57 xFIP
2014 = .351 wOBA 5.71 xFIP
2015 = .388 wOBA 4.74 xFIP

Career = .365 wOBA 4.69 xFIP


Lohse last 5 years Away

2011 = .298 wOBA 3.93 xFIP
2012 = .294 wOBA 4.12 xFIP
2013 = .300 wOBA 4.18 xFIP
2014 = .319 wOBA 4.45 xFIP
2015 = .317 wOBA 4.22 xFIP

Career = .336 wOBA 4.50 xFIP


Fister last 5 years Away

2011 = .291 wOBA 3.55 xFIP
2012 = .309 wOBA 3.42 xFIP
2013 = .317 wOBA 3.61 xFIP
2014 = .337 wOBA 4.44 xFIP
2015 = .355 wOBA 4.38 xFIP

Career = .322 wOBA 3.89 xFIP


Porcello last 5 years Away

2011 = .323 wOBA 3.95 xFIP
2012 = .352 wOBA 4.04 xFIP
2013 = .310 wOBA 3.45 xFIP
2014 = .296 wOBA 3.71 xFIP
2015 = .358 wOBA 3.87 xFIP

Career = .329 wOBA 3.84 xFIP

Who they pitch to matters. Lohse has benefitted in throwing to Yadier Molina and Jonathan Lucroy over the last 5 years. Two of the better pitch framers/game callers in the game. Fister, after he left DET, has done well with Jose Lobaton, but had issues with Wilson Ramos, especially in 2015. Rick Porcello had issues throwing to Gerald Laird in 2012 and threw mostly to Rookie Blake Swihart in 2015. Having the two worst pitch framers/game callers in baseball (McCann/Saltalamacchia) are not going to help, especially for the young pitchers (Boyd, Fulmer, etc, etc). If a pitcher has issues in 2016, is it them or who they are throwing to?

Nick Castellanos and Pablo Sandoval are two of the worst defensive 3B in baseball. This certainly hasn?t helped Porcello. Infield defense is important to groundball pitchers, especially 3B defense.

3B Defense last 2 years

5th = MIL (Lohse) 6.1 UZR/150

17th = MIN (Pelfrey) 1.1 UZR/150
20th = WSN (Fister) -1.2 UZR/150

29th = DET -13.8 UZR/150
30th = BOS -16.4 UZR/150


3B Defense last 5 years

6th = MIL 5.1 UZR/150

22nd = WSN -3.6 UZR/150
24th = STL -5.1 UZR/150
27th = MIN -5.6 UZR/150
29th = BOS -10.9 UZR/150
30th = DET -11.6 UZR/150
It means he is a cheaper version of a pitcher that sucks.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
I would have rather had Fister over either but Porcello got way overpaid. They flipped him for cespedes for fullmer etc..


I don't think we can truly call it either way on Boyd and company other than its very unlikely you are getting a one or a two out of that group.
 
Back
Top