Union Address and GoP rebutle

[mhughes0021]

I watched the speech twice and im not recalling where he brought up class warfare. Are you talking about when he said anyone that makes $1 million should pay 30% in taxes? When did people with money become such fairys!...30% is nothing and yet they all cry that the govt is stealing their money and hurting job creation in the process....such bs.

 

[tinselwolverine]

What Obama was specifically talking about in the speech pertained to people who made a million bucks or more. That's less than 1% of the population.

Polls suggest that at least 75% of the nation believes those who make that kinda dough should pay a little more in taxes than they do.

This is the first I've ever heard Obama specifically outline a policy specifically relating to capital gains - I've only ever heard him talk about capital gains adjustments in the abstract (oh, I wrote "specifically" twice, shit).

A couple of notes - heretofore Obama has been talking about returning the top marginal rate in income tax to Clinton era rates of about 40% - during the Reagan Administration, the top marginal tax rate averaged about 48%.

In the final year of the Reagan Presidency, the top marginal tax rate WAS cut to 28% - and capital gains preferences were eliminated - effectively making taxes on capital gains about the same as what Obama is calling for, whether a person made a million bucks or not.

Obama is a right wing tax slashing taxpayer rights advocate compared to Reagan.

And you don't need to be so mean and defensive KAWDUP, sheesh....

 

[mhughes0021]

In the florida debates one of mittens gotcha moments was when newt was talking about his tax plan and mittens interrupted him and chimed in that under newts tax plan mitt would have payed 0% taxes.

 

[KAWDUP]

Actually, I said nothing about class warfare. In fact I even stated that he stayed away from that. It isn't just class warfare that could be construed as divisive. I thought I was pretty clear on that.

BTW - the numbers batted around for various tax thresholds have been $110K, 200K, 250K and 350K. There is data out there talking about tax rates for all of those (not just income tax - taxes come in many forms) - although, maybe you were just talking payroll? His 200K plan doesn't do anything to the capital gains tax, which is how the rich pay a lower rate than you and me anyway.

If I decide to go link hunting for you, I'll post it here.

One stat from 2005 for ya. The top 1% of wager earners in the US in 2005 was ~350K. So I guess you really mean top 2-3% too. Although that is not 20-25%. It just shows how the data starts becoming skewed. If I find just one link showing any tax that has been proposed by a poiltician that might be increased for those making 100K - is that good enough for you? That is my claim. Obama didn't do more than propose his values either.

http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/income_rank/index.php > 100K is in the top 25%.

Do you care that I said that this was proposed legislation, not the rhetoric or talking points that you hear? If I come across something I'll post the link. I'm not afraid of you trying to debunk it. Just keep in mind my point has been that you and I will both have less disposable income after the next 4 years if Obama is re-elected.

Might even be a necessary evil, but hey I won't stop you from crying BS. The rhetoric sure is out there though.

So here is another question, what are the real chances that when the SS tax does not stop on dollars earned over the current maximum (90-110K depending on the year), that the amount between 110K and 250K really is exempted from paying the increase? I have heard that this donut hole will be pretty hard to get by both houses, but yet the rest of it may actually get into an economic bill.

Just think of the rhetoric surrounding just that one provision. Does this also come with an increase to the amount one can withraw when they make over 250K and start putting more in?

. . . or is that just another one of those things left up to actual legistation?

 

[KAWDUP]

[quote author=tinselwolverine board=talkpolitics thread=5072 post=118982 time=1327534697]

Obama is a right wing tax slashing taxpayer rights advocate compared to Reagan.

And you don't need to be so mean and defensive KAWDUP, sheesh....

[/quote

Sorry Tinsel. I really was trying to being funny like I thought you were - at least for part of it. Maybe I forgot the :*) face.

I was being honest. Your sarcasm is more entertaining. Wasn't trying to lay into you. Sometimes I think you'all believe I'm really angry. I am not. My extended family (mostly siblings) which are about evenly divided have epic "discussions" about all of this. If someone even thinks you are just quoting rhetoric, it is game over for you.

One of the first things you learn in my family is how argue religion and politics. Not for the feint of heart, but we are all real close and don't take anything personal. I don't take things personal here when I'm called an idiot, but I do try to match the level of intensity.

Some like champ (who should know better) get an extra dose from time to time, but on the whole I still always read his stuff.

I'll end on that - can't get all mushy in a political forum. :*)

 

[tinselwolverine]

[quote author=tinselwolverine board=talkpolitics thread=5072 post=118982 time=1327534697]

Obama is a right wing tax slashing taxpayer rights advocate compared to Reagan.

And you don't need to be so mean and defensive KAWDUP, sheesh....

[/quote

Sorry Tinsel. I really was trying to being funny like I thought you were - at least for part of it. Maybe I forgot the :*) face.

I was being honest. Your sarcasm is more entertaining. Wasn't trying to lay into you. Sometimes I think you'all believe I'm really angry. I am not. My extended family (mostly siblings) which are about evenly divided have epic "discussions" about all of this. If someone even thinks you are just quoting rhetoric, it is game over for you.

One of the first things you learn in my family is how argue religion and politics. Not for the feint of heart, but we are all real close and don't take anything personal. I don't take things personal here when I'm called an idiot, but I do try to match the level of intensity.

Some like champ (who should know better) get an extra dose from time to time, but on the whole I still always read his stuff.

I'll end on that - can't get all mushy in a political forum. :*)

Oh, it's OK if you're mushy it's a day for that...didn't you see Boehner's waterworks when Gifford handed him her resignation letter and he kissed her?

I thought the DCFD would have to come and rescue the entire HOR (House of Representatives) from the flood....

 

[tinselwolverine]

Oh, fuck and the Parthenon is going to close soon in Ann Arbor, I guess...l'm nostalgic and weepy over that too...

...very mushy day...

 

[KAWDUP]

Hand't seen it yet. I will when I get home from work. If any one of them thought there was political points to be made, I am sure they were on it like flies on shit.