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Christ is Risen

Your crap was even less worthy of a response, and I still responded. You like to debate do ya? All my points stand whether you think they are worthy of your lofty opinion or not. I even posted quite a number of facts. You had none - just more of your own ignorance.

So are you done, or have you just accepted all my points? :p

Ugh, fine. I'll respond when I'm home with my laptop. Typing on my phone is a pain in my ass.
 
prayer is therapeutic for the person doing the praying. that's about the value of it. I could pray that my putting gets better, but I think i'd be better served getting a lesson from the pro

Actually you would be better off praying for what it is usually meant to be. A personal relationship with your maker. If you want to call that your mommy and daddy, and figure it stops there, that is up to you.

Praying for God to intervene in your life generally doesn't "work" unless it is His will. I highly doubt He wants to interfere with man's free will. Look what has been sacrificed to keep it? Why would He jeopardize that just so you can improve your putting?
 
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you act like none of us were ever Christian and have never known any other Christians.

I'm gauging the misrepresentations in the claim about prayer. Prayer is not therapy or a self-improvement exercise insofar as it relates to temporal matters. It will not improve your short game or help you conquer that Travis picking exercise. It's purpose and intent is well-defined in the Lord's Prayer. Defined by God Himself.

Now, can you pray for outcomes? Sure. Will they come true? Maybe and maybe not. Does not suggest that God is not listening and answering them.

Jesus Himself prayed that "this cup pass from me," but also clearly stated "Thy will be done."
 
How can you possibly even begin to speculate on the benefits of prayer when you don't practice it or believe in its purpose? Or even know its purpose?

Talk about criticizing what you do not understand.



Do you believe arranging your homes furniture according to feng shui helps put your life in harmony and brings about prosperity, wisdom, and happiness?

Both prayer and feng shui are simply superstitions, just one is more widely accepted and the other people shrug off as eccentricity.
 
Do you believe arranging your homes furniture according to feng shui helps put your life in harmony and brings about prosperity, wisdom, and happiness?

Both prayer and feng shui are simply superstitions, just one is more widely accepted and the other people shrug off as eccentricity.

. . . again showing a limited understanding of prayer and what it can do. Just because you do not see a direct correlation between praying and its effects, does not really mean it is a superstition, although I will say you are perfectly entitled to have that wrong opinion. :*)
 
. . . again showing a limited understanding of prayer and what it can do. Just because you do not see a direct correlation between praying and its effects, does not really mean it is a superstition, although I will say you are perfectly entitled to have that wrong opinion. :*)



Strawman.

I never said anything about the effects of prayer, or what it can do.

I was responding to Byco who said that sbee was criticizing what he didn't understand, and offering another look at that statement.

And I'm using the term superstition because that's what it is:

su?per?sti?tion
noun \ˌs?-pər-ˈsti-shən\

: a belief or way of behaving that is based on fear of the unknown and faith in magic or luck : a belief that certain events or things will bring good or bad luck

a : a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation
b : an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition
2
: a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary
 
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Strawman.

I never said anything about the effects of prayer, or what it can do.

I was responding to Byco who said that sbee was criticizing what he didn't understand, and offering another look at that statement.

And I'm using the term superstition because that's what it is:

su?per?sti?tion
noun \ˌs?-pər-ˈsti-shən\

: a belief or way of behaving that is based on fear of the unknown and faith in magic or luck : a belief that certain events or things will bring good or bad luck

Well you were posting about the effects of feng shui and comparing that to prayer - that would not then include the effects of prayer? Give me a break.

. . . and by its definition, prayer would not fit your posted definition in any way. There is no faith in magic or luck involved - be careful or I will pull out my dictionary for the meanings of those too.

BTW - I am allowed to comment on what you posted. Just because you were responding to Byco does not mean I can't interject. You do it all the time Thumb.
 
Strawman.

I never said anything about the effects of prayer, or what it can do.

I was responding to Byco who said that sbee was criticizing what he didn't understand, and offering another look at that statement.

And I'm using the term superstition because that's what it is:

su?per?sti?tion
noun \ˌs?-pər-ˈsti-shən\

: a belief or way of behaving that is based on fear of the unknown and faith in magic or luck : a belief that certain events or things will bring good or bad luck

a : a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation
b : an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition
2
: a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary

BTW - I think you are missing the definition of strawman again. shall I go over that definition with you again? Seems like you need a refresher.
 
Do you believe arranging your homes furniture according to feng shui helps put your life in harmony and brings about prosperity, wisdom, and happiness?

I believe in the importance of spacial relationships and in the profession of interior design. I cannot agree that observing them brings about these attributes.

Both prayer and feng shui are simply superstitions, just one is more widely accepted and the other people shrug off as eccentricity.

There are 1 billion Catholics in the world. That's some pretty wide acceptance. Not that numbers are the important point. I'd be the last one left if it ever came to that.
 
How can you possibly even begin to speculate on the benefits of prayer when you don't practice it or believe in its purpose? Or even know its purpose?

Talk about criticizing what you do not understand.

Basic psychology, you don't have to be a genius.

What is your thought on praying for rain during a drought? Does that bring rain?
 
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Strawman.

I never said anything about the effects of prayer, or what it can do.

I was responding to Byco who said that sbee was criticizing what he didn't understand, and offering another look at that statement.

And I'm using the term superstition because that's what it is:

su?per?sti?tion
noun \ˌs?-pər-ˈsti-shən\

: a belief or way of behaving that is based on fear of the unknown and faith in magic or luck : a belief that certain events or things will bring good or bad luck

a : a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation
b : an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition
2
: a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary

Which one makes more sense?

Me thinking a penny in my pocket will help Michigan state score more points than Stanford or someone thinking cancer will go into remission because you mumble something under your breath before you go to bed?

Both seem pretty equal and have the same results.
 
Well you were posting about the effects of feng shui and comparing that to prayer - that would not then include the effects of prayer?

Yes I did compare the two, but I did not offer an opinion on the effects other than to ask his (Byco) opinion. Maybe you should get some reading glasses.

. . . and by its definition, prayer would not fit your posted definition in any way. There is no faith in magic or luck involved - be careful or I will pull out my dictionary for the meanings of those too.

su?per?sti?tion
noun \ˌs?-pər-ˈsti-shən\

: a belief or way of behaving that is based on fear of the unknown and faith in magic or luck : a belief that certain events or things will bring good or bad luck

a : a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation
b : an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition
2
: a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary


You posted before I edited when I realized the whole definition did not copy.


BTW - I am allowed to comment on what you posted. Just because you were responding to Byco does not mean I can't interject. You do it all the time Thumb.

I never claimed you can't. Just that you are out of your mind telling me what I'm saying about the effects of prayer, when I clearly said NOTHING AT ALL about their effects, negative or positive.
 
BTW - I think you are missing the definition of strawman again. shall I go over that definition with you again? Seems like you need a refresher.



I know exactly what it means. And yes you are making a strawman argument by insisting about my stance (which I have not made) on the effects of prayer.

You are making up my side of the argument so you have something to counter.

Definition:

straw man
noun

: a weak or imaginary argument or opponent that is set up to be easily defeated
 
I think Webster might want to take a 2nd look at that definition. Superstition is an irrational attitude resulting from superstition?
 
Basic psychology, you don't have to be a genius.

What is your thought on praying for rain during a drought? Does that bring rain?

See post #83. Not only do you not understand the purpose of prayer, you do not know you do not understand.
 
Where do I even start? Ignorance flows freely in just about every paragraph you typed here.

1) I am not blinded by my belief any more than you are by your lack of belief.
2) The bible has no substance? That is prima facie ignorance of the highest order. There is no valid definition of substance that makes that statement anything but false.
3) I can't turn the statement around on you? All evidence to the contrary - and rather effectively I might add - your opinion here isn't worth any more than mine. . . . and I think Red more than debunked your statement about scientists all being atheists. Why do all religious scholars have to study the Bible? Just more ignorance.
4) Your fantasies are very good at cherry-picking various aspects that you are already biased against. I can find 20 passages to every one of yours with not only some merit, but quite a bit truth to them. Free will allows you to not believe anything you like, but certainly doesn't make it contain any more or less truth, just because you choose not to believe it.
5) I would be glad to correct you on this statement. If something is proven wrong, I work to add it to my world view - a world view that still includes religion. That is the real difference between you and I.
6) His conclusion was that God exists - not sure why you even quoted that. He did do his best to dispense with God, and could not - I think that was my point.
7) Umm . . . there are quite a few very well known atheists from that time. I am sure you can Google them all. They may not have professed such views for fear of death at the time, but doesn't mean they didn't have atheist views and were willing to talk all about them. Notable ones, in case you don't care to look - Da Vinci, Machiavelli, Marlowe, Shakespeare, and quite a number who did meet death, but never gave up their atheistic views. Descarte's life was never in danger (he was sickly), even though he started out with complete skepticism as it pertains to religion. Even many of the famous ones that did die, had their writings published after their death, so am not really sure why you think Descartes' conclusions had anything to do with the "danger" of having them.

BTW - your last definition of ignorance isn't even close. It most certainly does not show a lack of knowledge to have faith in something in the face of what you are calling evidence. I think you are ignorant of the definition of ignorance. :*)

1. I beg to differ. As I've said, give me some proof or anything that may lead to the conclusion that your God is real and I will be able to admit I am wrong. I don't believe I could ever follow your God because of the things he's done in the bible and the way he ignores evils of this world, but I'd at least believe. Almost every creation claim in the bible has been completely destroyed by science. And if you believe there have been people who've lived almost 1,000 years, I have a billion dollar penny to sell you.

2. Okay, perhaps substance was the wrong word, but it should be fairly obvious what I meant by the word. There is nothing to the bible that has any relevance to reality. You may count inspirational stories or spiritual verses, but that isn't unique to the bible.

3. You're right. My opinion is not greater than yours. I am just a man and so are you. But, that doesn't mean you are right and I am wrong or the other way around. I already addressed Red's poll, so I won't do that again.

4. Find as many passages as you want that have merit. I can do that in Harry Potter books and the Qur'an. When it comes to scientific fact, the bible is limited by the knowledge of the day. You'll get scholars that argue otherwise. They'll claim that the bible talks of DNA, which is an absolute stretch and completely untrue, but you can do that. For every one of those accurate scientific claims you will find one claiming that Heaven separates the water in the sky from the water on Earth. Oh, and the sky is a solid dome. It's convenient for Christians to believe it is symbolic and not literal. But, whatever.

5. If that is the case, then Kudos to you. But, you can't accept something that refutes your faith and still believe everything else. The bible is supposed to be God inspired or the actual work of God. One error in the bible destroys everything.

6. I quoted that because most people of the day believed him to be a deist or an atheist. And yes, in that day atheist was a huge insult and not something that you wanted to be known as. So most atheists of the day claimed to be christian or a deist.

7. I believe i answered this already, but I'll continue. Not sure about Machiavelli because I honestly don't know enough about him to say for sure, but Da Vinci's religion has been debated for a long time. Some believe he was Catholic. Some believe he was a deist. A lot of his work was related to religion. He speaks much of reasoning and criticizing scholars who thought they knew everything but only parroted others opinions. If you check out others from that time period, you'll find that they claimed religion, but secretly harbored doubts. Rumors of deism or atheism.
 
Bumping this historic thread in honor of Easter Sunday today
 
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