Feds now looking at U response in Gibbons case

[Michlady]

well Brady didn't do anything to harm anyone but I do take issue with saying it was a family matter. just say that it was a violation of team rules or violation of university policy and leave it at that. Hoke didn't start this and he wasn't even the coach when it happened but him saying it was a family matter looks really bad.

Agree on that

 

[Gulo Blue]

I do occasionally post on the red cedar board, so yes.

what happens is that MSU fans read the biased stuff from Angelique or Sam Webb and think, hey, there's a big bias against MSU. well, there is with those writers, it's obvious. I'm sure there is with Rexrode and Charbenau, but i don't really read those guys, I get most of my info from the Rivals team.

So you see what I getting at then...we don't have anything like that. That's the difference. There's more money in throwing mud than praise. Both schools get it, but there's this idea running around Spartan fandom that Michigan is somehow not subject to it; that we have a Blue Wall protecting us. I forget if I ran the numbers this past season or 2011 (probably 2011), but there was all this "Spartan don't get any respect" talk. I looked at the difference between the human voters and the computers though and MSU was the #1 team in the nation in terms of human voters ranking them higher than the computers.

 

[Sbee]

So you see what I getting at then...we don't have anything like that. That's the difference. There's more money in throwing mud than praise. Both schools get it, but there's this idea running around Spartan fandom that Michigan is somehow not subject to it; that we have a Blue Wall protecting us. I forget if I ran the numbers this past season or 2011 (probably 2011), but there was all this "Spartan don't get any respect" talk. I looked at the difference between the human voters and the computers though and MSU was the #1 team in the nation in terms of human voters ranking them higher than the computers.

As for the media, maybe there is a pro u of m bias in the papers. Southeast Michigan is very pro u of m, if the major daily papers were run out of mid Michigan, it might be different. Its not like there is a blue wall though, this isn't north korea. Either way it doesn't matter much, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Hell, msu athletics thrives on disrespect and being the underdog so the shoe fits

 

[Gulo Blue]

As for the media, maybe there is a pro u of m bias in the papers. Southeast Michigan is very pro u of m, if the major daily papers were run out of mid Michigan, it might be different. Its not like there is a blue wall though, this isn't north korea. Either way it doesn't matter much, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Hell, msu athletics thrives on disrespect and being the underdog so the shoe fits

They thrive on the myth of disrespect they keep telling themselves.

 

[Sbee]

They thrive on the myth of disrespect they keep telling themselves.

We'll be ranked top 10 in fb next year and still play the disrespect card. We'll find a way.

 

[Michlady]

here is letter to President from Dept of Ed

i read it as broad investigation
http://vpcomm.umich.edu/pa/key/documents/OCRNOTIFICATIONLETTER.pdf


i still struggle with judging 2009/10 actions under a policy that was revised later

so i still ask what i did with brendan, did other cases get reopened/reviewed too?

 

[Gulo Blue]

here is letter to President from Dept of Ed

i read it as broad investigation
http://vpcomm.umich.edu/pa/key/documents/OCRNOTIFICATIONLETTER.pdf


i still struggle with judging 2009/10 actions under a policy that was revised later

so i still ask what i did with brendan, did other cases get reopened/reviewed too?

I'm less worried about reviewing old cases under new policy than the lowered degree of certainty required if it's true what people are saying about 51%. There's no good answer and I have no doubt that justice was not served more often than not by a wide margin under the old policy, and probably still will be, but having this label follow you for life if you were innocent is also a horrible prospect. It's kind of getting swept under the rug a bit because nobody wants to be viewed as being on the wrong side here. Would there be a lawsuit if someone could later prove them were wrongfully disciplined?

 

[Michlady]

agree

years ago i had another person in my grad porgram who cried rape after a party - i had to talk to the police

it was very hard situation as I don't think she was raped, but she had drank some - it is hard to know what happened behind closed doors

 

[douglas2k]

Taylor Lewan's threat

I would still like one of the people that claim Lewan's statements were reported to police by players to provide a link. If that is documented, the University almost certainly knew about it, but I've only seen 1 reference on that one website with no citation or indication which comment was supposed to have been reported.

The victim contacted me via Facebook in 2012 and told me a number of things from her perspective. She said that it was two of the football players who reported the threat to the University.

 

[douglas2k]

here is letter to President from Dept of Ed

i read it as broad investigation
http://vpcomm.umich.edu/pa/key/documents/OCRNOTIFICATIONLETTER.pdf


i still struggle with judging 2009/10 actions under a policy that was revised later

so i still ask what i did with brendan, did other cases get reopened/reviewed too?

The Office of Civil Rights is not judging the actions under any UM policy, they are investigating whether or not the way the University handled the complaints complied with Title IX, which is federal law.

Note also that the second complaint was made to the University in August 2012, after the new UM policy and the "Dear Colleague" letter sent by the Office of Civil Rights in April 2011.

It is not clear if the second complaint had anything to do with the Gibbons case. The complaint was filed on January 16, 2014 and complaints must be filed within 180 days of a final decision by the University. It might be the decision to expel Gibbons or it might be unrelated. The first complaint was definitely about the handling of the Gibbons incident. OCR appears to be looking at broader issues about how UM is handling sexual assault complaints.

 

[Michlady]

I understand that Doug
I can read


My point was this isn't just gibbons but the whole process

 

[Michchamp]

here is letter to President from Dept of Ed

i read it as broad investigation
http://vpcomm.umich.edu/pa/key/documents/OCRNOTIFICATIONLETTER.pdf


i still struggle with judging 2009/10 actions under a policy that was revised later

so i still ask what i did with brendan, did other cases get reopened/reviewed too?

holy smokes... that's a huge amount of material they are requesting on the basis of two (2) complaints, 2 years apart. A lot of this is beyond merit as well. most of this request should be quashed.

the attorney team leader who filed the request is in ohio. no surprise there... link to martindale profile.

edit... sucks for us that the OCR regional office for Michigan/Ohio is located in ohio.

 

[tomdalton22]

holy smokes... that's a huge amount of material they are requesting on the basis of two (2) complaints, 2 years apart. A lot of this is beyond merit as well. most of this request should be quashed.

the attorney team leader who filed the request is in ohio. no surprise there... link to martindale profile.

edit... sucks for us that the OCR regional office for Michigan/Ohio is located in ohio.

Maybe they take rape more serisously than free tatoos in Ohio.

 

[Michlady]

Again they are investigating the whole university process for complaints, nit just the specific case

For several years and for all cases

And remember schools changed stuff in late 2011 in response to Feds standards

 

[TheVictors]

They seem to in Steubenville, OH anyways ....well, with respect to HS athletes anyways.

 

[Michchamp]

Again they are investigating the whole university process for complaints, nit just the specific case

For several years and for all cases

And remember schools changed stuff in late 2011 in response to Feds standards

just speculating... and not trying to trivialize assault & rape, but to me, the breadth of that document request (based on two complaints two years apart) seems insane.

I wonder what their request to ND looked like, where there was a clear failure to so much as investigate reported assaults, let alone do anything about them. UNC was supposedly in the same camp as ND. If the doc requests to those schools were the same or more intensive, then maybe this isn't as over-broad as I think.

UM does things the right way, and I'm glad we do, but sometimes it seems like we get in more trouble simply because we're willing to respond to regulators/NCAA in good faith. compare and contrast our response to the RichRod "PracticeGate" with ohio's stonewalling and blatantly lying to NCAA regulators... that should've resulted in a lot more than a year's forfeiture and 1 year bowl ban.

*steps off soapbox*

 

[johnny2x2x]

The Office of Civil Rights is not judging the actions under any UM policy, they are investigating whether or not the way the University handled the complaints complied with Title IX, which is federal law.

Note also that the second complaint was made to the University in August 2012, after the new UM policy and the "Dear Colleague" letter sent by the Office of Civil Rights in April 2011.

It is not clear if the second complaint had anything to do with the Gibbons case. The complaint was filed on January 16, 2014 and complaints must be filed within 180 days of a final decision by the University. It might be the decision to expel Gibbons or it might be unrelated. The first complaint was definitely about the handling of the Gibbons incident. OCR appears to be looking at broader issues about how UM is handling sexual assault complaints.

2nd complaint was likely in the Jordan Dumars incident. But who knows, it could have been a rape that happened in the accounting office.