Izzo vs Beilein

[Spartan23MSU]

I know Michigan is playing great ball this year but I saw an interesting statement on Facebook B10 Network..

"Beilein hasn't been able to get the Jaren Jackson's, Miles Bridges etc...

He took a 2 star recruit from Columbus (who OSU didnt even offer) and made him into the national player of the year.

Took a jump shooter from Canada and turned him into the Big Ten POY and a top 10 draft pick.

Everyone that Beilein coaches improves dramatically"


While its a stretch that EVERY player has improved dramtically under B, I have to question it. Has JB done "more with less" lately. Id have to say YES.

Dantonio has done "more with less" as far as lesser recruits producing more than Harbaugh, Rich Rod, Hokes top classes. Michigan has cream of the crop recruits in football year after year. I think Izzo is too conservative when it comes to playing his best players and its infuriated all of us.

Very subjective but id wager guys like Davis and Jackson would have had more minutes under Beilein and truly able to produce. They were never able to play full games under Izzo. In fact, you start to get into a flow after being on the bench, Izzo benches guys. I dont know if its a control factor but JB has been squeezing every bit of talent out of lesser recruiting classes for years now. Im not Izzo bashing but its a legitimate observation.

Take the full scope of Izzos recruiting classes the last 5 years and id have to wonder would Beilein have won another NC with our recruits?

I might take some flack for presenting this but it did make me think.

 

[MSUMatt28]

It's a silly comparison. There are hits and misses with both. Beilein's had great success taking unheralded (or underrated) recruits and turned them into pro's. But Mitch McGary was a fairly hyped recruit and other than a little stretch in the NCAAs hasn't done jack squat (actually I just had to look this up, but he' a professional bowler now? lol). And Wagner wasn't ranked because he didn't play HS in the US, but consensus was he'd have been a top 30 guy. And it took him 3 years to be a contributor. Same deal with DJ Wilson. At the same time, he develops players. One can't really argue that.

But to take that and say that Izzo doesn't is pretty silly. He "developed" Draymond Green from barely top 100 recruit to NBA all-star but doesn't seem to get credit for that. That team Draymond's senior year was Big Ten champs and an NCAA #1 seed with no other NBA talent. Go back to the 2016 team. They were led by Valentine who was ranked similarly to Draymond and is in the NBA, Forbes who was nobody in HS and now contributes in the NBA, and Costello who was another barely top 75 type recruit who became a fringe NBA talent. We all wanted DD to play for minutes but he still was able to be a one and done despite maybe not being a top 20 recruit. Same with JJJ. I'm not sure he was ranked in the top 10 in HS, but he was able to go one and done and develop enough during his freshman year that he is an NBA starter right off the bat.

All of which is to say that the talent level on some of his recent teams (save for last year) has been overrated. Heck how often in recent years have we lamented how many guys he's lost to Duke or UK (who by the way have had a few highly rated guys become duds, but when you're signing 3 or 4 of them every year, you sure have a nice margin for error). But when he does get the talent it's not like it very often bombs, and he gets guys coming from nowhere to becoming NBA level players a fair amount too.

Bottom line is Beilein is going a great job and has a lot of momentum right now, but this idea that Izzo is slipping that taken hold the past several years is starting to look silly. The only real difference between the past several years and the 15 years prior to that have been the early NCAA exits, and some of that is just dumb luck. Look at our finishes in the Big Ten the past 5 years and they're in line with the periods before that other than 2 years ago with a freshman dominated group that had no big guys save for Ward after DD unexpectedly went pro early.

 

[tomdalton22]

But to take that and say that Izzo doesn't is pretty silly. He "developed" Draymond Green from barely top 100 recruit to NBA all-star but doesn't seem to get credit for that.

If you give Izzo credit for developing Green you must give Izzo credit for him being a total asshole on the court.

 

[Spartanmack]

I know Michigan is playing great ball this year but I saw an interesting statement on Facebook B10 Network..

"Beilein hasn't been able to get the Jaren Jackson's, Miles Bridges etc...

He took a 2 star recruit from Columbus (who OSU didnt even offer) and made him into the national player of the year.

Took a jump shooter from Canada and turned him into the Big Ten POY and a top 10 draft pick.

Everyone that Beilein coaches improves dramatically"


While its a stretch that EVERY player has improved dramtically under B, I have to question it. Has JB done "more with less" lately. Id have to say YES.

Dantonio has done "more with less" as far as lesser recruits producing more than Harbaugh, Rich Rod, Hokes top classes. Michigan has cream of the crop recruits in football year after year. I think Izzo is too conservative when it comes to playing his best players and its infuriated all of us.

Very subjective but id wager guys like Davis and Jackson would have had more minutes under Beilein and truly able to produce. They were never able to play full games under Izzo. In fact, you start to get into a flow after being on the bench, Izzo benches guys. I dont know if its a control factor but JB has been squeezing every bit of talent out of lesser recruiting classes for years now. Im not Izzo bashing but its a legitimate observation.

Take the full scope of Izzos recruiting classes the last 5 years and id have to wonder would Beilein have won another NC with our recruits?

I might take some flack for presenting this but it did make me think.

Are you talking about Trey Burke? He was a high 3 star and was underrated - probalby because he played with Jared Sullinger who was a top 5 player Nationally. I'm sure Burke improved under Beilein but he was already really good and was basically a contributor since day 1 - as a freshman he averaged 36.1 minutes, 14.8 pts and 4.6 assists over 34 games. He almost declared for the draft but decided to stick around for one more year where his numbers were 35.3mins, 18.6 pts and 6.7 assists over 39 games. Give beilein credit - uofm was Burke's best offer by a lot but he was more of a Darquez Denard diamond in the rough kind of find than a Denzel Valentine or Draymond Green project.

 

[Spartanmack]

If you give Izzo credit for developing Green you must give Izzo credit for him being a total asshole on the court.

In what way is Izzo an asshole on the court?

 

[Michchamp]

In what way is Izzo an asshole on the court?

Tom's like "Goddamn, where did he move those goalposts? can't even see them now!"

 

[tomdalton22]

In what way is Izzo an asshole on the court?

did I put the word "him" in the wrong spot? Maybe I should have been more specific and used Draymond vs. "him".

Draymond is the asshole on the court. Izzo doesn't play basketball, although he does walk on a basketball court from time to time.

 

[Spartanmack]

did I put the word "him" in the wrong spot? Maybe I should have been more specific and used Draymond vs. "him".

Draymond is the asshole on the court. Izzo doesn't play basketball, although he does walk on a basketball court from time to time.

My mistake - I thought you meant Izzo's behavior as a coach. It wasn't clear from your post and I don't watch or follow NBA basketball so I wasn't thinking about Draymond's role as the villain when I read it. Also, several people (mostly butt hurt wolverine fans) have made similar comments about Izzo being an hot headed asshole, presumably from his behavior in games which is what I thought you meant by on the court. I don't see it, which is why I asked the question, but people have certainly tried to make the case.

As far as Draymond is concerned, as I recall he really didn't become an asshole until his NBA days - I think he discovered the villain was a role he could play that would make him more valuable and he went with it. If he had that personality at MSU, maybe Izzo should get credit for keeping it in check - it could be my pro-MSU bias, but I don't recall him having a reputation as a dirty player in college. He talked a lot but I don't remember him playing dirty.

 

[Spartanmack]

Tom's like "Goddamn, where did he move those goalposts? can't even see them now!"

go away tubby, nobody asked you.

 

[tinselwolverine]

did I put the word "him" in the wrong spot? Maybe I should have been more specific and used Draymond vs. "him".

Draymond is the asshole on the court. Izzo doesn't play basketball, although he does walk on a basketball court from time to time.

It was clear to me that you were referring to Green.

Some of Michigan rivals fans say they used to want to punch Stauskas in his face and now they have that same feeling about Iggy.

I had that same feeling about Draymond Green except I used to want to kick him in his nuts.

 

[Spartanmack]

It was clear to me that you were referring to Green.

Some of Michigan rivals fans say they used to want to punch Stauskas in his face and now they have that same feeling about Iggy.

I had that same feeling about Draymond Green except I used to want to kick him in his nuts.

you don't want to kick him in his nuts anymore? I don't recall ever wanting to punch Stauskas in the face and I haven't watched enough uofm hoops to know anything about this iggy guy - I'll have to get back to you on him.

 

[tinselwolverine]

you don't want to kick him in his nuts anymore? I don't recall ever wanting to punch Stauskas in the face and I haven't watched enough uofm hoops to know anything about this iggy guy - I'll have to get back to you on him.

One or Spartans on the board - don?t recall who offhand; there?s so many of you all - have made that joke about Stauskis and Iggy.

I pay next to no attention to the NBA nor Day Day Green except for when news about it comes on the radio.

So no I can?t really say I think much about kicking him in the nuts very often.

 

[Spartanmack]

One or Spartans on the board - don’t recall who offhand; there’s so many of you all - have made that joke about Stauskis and Iggy.

I pay next to no attention to the NBA nor Day Day Green except for when news about it comes on the radio.

So no I can’t really say I think much about kicking him in the nuts very often.

yeah, I remember seeing that on the uofm board - maybe it was gotime and/or MSUMatt? they usually have a good mix of insightful or comedic things to say. I think they also mentioned the German kid from last year who left early and if I recall there were a couple of uofm posters who agreed as to the punchability of one or more of those guys.

 

[tinselwolverine]

yeah, I remember seeing that on the uofm board - maybe it was gotime and/or MSUMatt? they usually have a good mix of insightful or comedic things to say. I think they also mentioned the German kid from last year who left early and if I recall there were a couple of uofm posters who agreed as to the punchability of one or more of those guys.

Yeah, a goddamn foreigner is a goddamn foreigner, what can I tell you?

There?s just something about people from other countries that makes you want to punch them right in the face.

 

[Spartanmack]

Yeah, a goddamn foreigner is a goddamn foreigner, what can I tell you?

There’s just something about people from other countries that makes you want to punch them right in the face.

maybe this should be on the politics board but I think it's important to distinguish between foreigners who are here legally and those who are here illegally. Then we should further distinguish between legitimate asylum seekers and the ones w/ the cantelope sized calfs hauling bales of weed from old Mexico to Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and California. The drug mules deserve a punch in the face but we can just tear gas the asylum seekers from the wall.

edit: this policy is subject to change - like if Beilein gets above .500 for his career against Izzo but until then, kids on a basketball, I mean student visa get a pass from the punch.

 

[Spartan23MSU]

:clap::clap::clap: off topic but respect. Ive looked into dual citizenship since my girlfriend is South American (and various previous to this one) and I see real estate opportunity with the current exchange rates. These pesky rules and regulations arent making it easy. But, but, but im an entitled human I should have whatever I demand? Back to sports, Go Green!

maybe this should be on the politics board but I think it's important to distinguish between foreigners who are here legally and those who are here illegally. Then we should further distinguish between legitimate asylum seekers and the ones w/ the cantelope sized calfs hauling bales of weed from old Mexico to Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and California. The drug mules deserve a punch in the face but we can just tear gas the asylum seekers from the wall.

edit: this policy is subject to change - like if Beilein gets above .500 for his career against Izzo but until then, kids on a basketball, I mean student visa get a pass from the punch.

 

[Sbee]

Michigan gets plenty of talent, it's a false narrative. He's built a strong program with good coaching and recruiting.

Also, take that trey Burke argument and compare it to Bryn forbes, nobody ever saw him as a starting NBA pg.

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