Tigers aren't getting Choo, okay already?

[tigerfan2272]

Like I'm naturally a negative person but you all make me feel like Mary Poppins.

 

[sggatecl]

Like I'm naturally a negative person but you all make me feel like Mary Poppins.

If you say you're a negative person and then say you're happy with this off season then you are full of shit.

 

[tigerfan2272]

I'm not happy but you guys use every move that happens in baseball as a reason to place us 3rd or 4th in the shittiest division in baseball.

 

[tigerfan2272]

The Tigers are still the best team in the AL Central sorry if losing Prince Fielder, Omar Infante and Doug Fister damaged your insides so bad that it caused brain issues.

 

[Thumb]

I'm not happy but you guys use every move that happens in baseball as a reason to place us 3rd or 4th in the shittiest division in baseball.

Check your facts.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings

1 of 3 divisions to have 3 teams or more finish with winning records. AL Central is not the shittiest division in baseball by a long shot. That would easily be the NL West.

 

[Thumb]

The Tigers are still the best team in the AL Central sorry if losing Prince Fielder, Omar Infante and Doug Fister damaged your insides so bad that it caused brain issues.

We lost: Fielder, Infante, Fister, Benoit, Veras, Peralta, Pena, Dotel, Downs and Tuiasosopo.

We added: Kinsler, Nathan, Krol, Ray, Lombotomy, Jaba, Davis.

If you think we are still the best team in the central I won't argue that, but definitely are not as good as we were last year.

 

[mhughes0021]

No it isn't. If my math is correct Cano cost almost twice as much and he'll be well into his 40s when the contract runs out.

Choo will be 39 when his contract runs out and is making close to 20 mil....cano isn't making 40 mil per year.

Number vs lefties:

".215/.347/.265 in 2013; .199/.318/.286 in 2012; Those numbers the past two years, accumulated across 463 plate appearances, make him a strong candidate for a platoon, something few teams would consider with a player who is going to make the kind of money Choo should earn as a free agent."

So you now have a middle aged right fielder for 7 years hitting lead off who cant hit lefties.

 

[Rebbiv]

Choo will be 39 when his contract runs out and is making close to 20 mil....cano isn't making 40 mil per year.

Number vs lefties:

".215/.347/.265 in 2013; .199/.318/.286 in 2012; Those numbers the past two years, accumulated across 463 plate appearances, make him a strong candidate for a platoon, something few teams would consider with a player who is going to make the kind of money Choo should earn as a free agent."

So you now have a middle aged right fielder for 7 years hitting lead off who cant hit lefties.

Choo (31) 7 years, $130 MIL

Cano (31) 10 years, $240 MIL

Last 3 years Away

Cano .311 BAVG .371 OBP .525 SLG .896 OPS

Choo .264 BAVG .372 OBP .406 SLG .778 OPS

I do not believe in long contracts, so I do not like either contracts. Adding Choo does not do anything special for TEX, except add an OFer. Until Profar can perform at the MLB level, TEX's offense isn't awe inspiring. It isn't even better than DET, and I don't think DET's is an elite offense.

For TEX it comes down to pitching and they have had problems with injuries.


And FYI...almost all left handed hitter have difficulties hitting lefty pitchers and that only accounts for about 25-30% of the plate appearances.

 

[stonecold2136]

We lost: Fielder, Infante, Fister, Benoit, Veras, Peralta, Pena, Dotel, Downs and Tuiasosopo.

We added: Kinsler, Nathan, Krol, Ray, Lombotomy, Jaba, Davis.

If you think we are still the best team in the central I won't argue that, but definitely are not as good as we were last year.

We lost

Fielder - Who could care less about getting knocked out of the playoffs. All he cares about is his stupid consecutive games streak.

Infante - An aging crippled Infante - His range at 2nd base was terrible in the playoffs

Nathan - The best closer in the game now that Rivera is retired.

Benoit - Choked in the post season

Veras - Gave up the game winning Grand Slam to hand deliver the ALCS to Boston on a silver platter. - This punched his ticket out of town

Peralta - Will revert back to the 2011 nothing to play for Johnny Peralta now that he has big contract again.

Pena - Garbage back up catchers are a dime a dozen

Dotel - Did it really matter what he did ?

Downs - Who?

Tuiasosopo - The team will not miss this piece of work. Now that Dirks is Healthy, Along with the World class speed of Davis.

 

[mhughes0021]

Choo (31) 7 years, $130 MIL

Cano (31) 10 years, $240 MIL

Last 3 years Away

Cano .311 BAVG .371 OBP .525 SLG .896 OPS

Choo .264 BAVG .372 OBP .406 SLG .778 OPS

I do not believe in long contracts, so I do not like either contracts. Adding Choo does not do anything special for TEX, except add an OFer. Until Profar can perform at the MLB level, TEX's offense isn't awe inspiring. It isn't even better than DET, and I don't think DET's is an elite offense.

For TEX it comes down to pitching and they have had problems with injuries.


And FYI...almost all left handed hitter have difficulties hitting lefty pitchers and that only accounts for about 25-30% of the plate appearances.

ya, that's what I said....choo deal was worse than the cano deal.

 

[mhughes0021]

The Bad: Choo's Glove

Choo patrolled right field for Cleveland in 2012 and moved to center with Cincinnati in 2013. Defensive versatility can be a vital asset, but, according to FanGraphs, his UZR (Ultimate Zone Rating, an advanced fielding metric) came in at minus-16.7 and minus-15.5, respectively, in those seasons.

A UZR of 15 is very good, zero is average; minus-15 is rotten, especially for an outfielder with speed. Looking to his DRS (defensive runs saved), Choo was just as bad with a minus-12 in 2012 and minus-17 in 2013. His dWAR (defensive wins above replacement) of minus-1.8 in 2013 ranked dead last among qualifying center fielders (via ESPN ). In 2012, only two qualifying right fielders posted a lower dWAR than Choo's minus-1.9.

Choo has an above-average throwing arm with below-average defensive instincts. Whether in right or in center field, he routinely fails to get a good read on the ball and takes poor routes, turning some singles into doubles. His surprisingly limited range is even more harmful in center field, essentially robbing him of any potential defensive dynamism. For a player with his speed and strong arm, Choo should be a marvel in the outfield, but he is in fact a defensive liability.

The Ugly: Negotiating with Scott Boras

The other problem is that Scott Boras is Choo's agent. He will seek to punish any and all interested suitors by jacking up his player's price using any means necessary. In 2011, the Washington Nationals gave Boras' client Jayson Werth a contract worth $126 million over seven years. According to a tweet from Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com, Boras will look to top that contract with Choo, even though the Werth deal was pretty obviously an ill-advised signing for the Nats.

 

[Rebbiv]

The Bad: Choo's Glove

Choo patrolled right field for Cleveland in 2012 and moved to center with Cincinnati in 2013. Defensive versatility can be a vital asset, but, according to FanGraphs, his UZR (Ultimate Zone Rating, an advanced fielding metric) came in at minus-16.7 and minus-15.5, respectively, in those seasons.

A UZR of 15 is very good, zero is average; minus-15 is rotten, especially for an outfielder with speed. Looking to his DRS (defensive runs saved), Choo was just as bad with a minus-12 in 2012 and minus-17 in 2013. His dWAR (defensive wins above replacement) of minus-1.8 in 2013 ranked dead last among qualifying center fielders (via ESPN ). In 2012, only two qualifying right fielders posted a lower dWAR than Choo's minus-1.9.

Choo has an above-average throwing arm with below-average defensive instincts. Whether in right or in center field, he routinely fails to get a good read on the ball and takes poor routes, turning some singles into doubles. His surprisingly limited range is even more harmful in center field, essentially robbing him of any potential defensive dynamism. For a player with his speed and strong arm, Choo should be a marvel in the outfield, but he is in fact a defensive liability.

The Ugly: Negotiating with Scott Boras

The other problem is that Scott Boras is Choo's agent. He will seek to punish any and all interested suitors by jacking up his player's price using any means necessary. In 2011, the Washington Nationals gave Boras' client Jayson Werth a contract worth $126 million over seven years. According to a tweet from Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com, Boras will look to top that contract with Choo, even though the Werth deal was pretty obviously an ill-advised signing for the Nats.

UZR is a piss poor stat, especially for Outfielders. And most will tell you that defensive metrics/stats are very hard to use on a one year basis.

 

[sggatecl]

I'm not happy but you guys use every move that happens in baseball as a reason to place us 3rd or 4th in the shittiest division in baseball.

Make sure you remember to breathe when you're exaggerating so hard, might hurt yourself.

 

[Sbee]

Choo isn't a 20m per year guy, he just happened to be the best outfielder we could have gotten. I think for that kind of money you need a middle of the order monster, not a high OBP guy is considered a 5 tool guy but isn't outstanding in any area other than throwing really

 

[biggunsbob]

Wish we could have gotten him and his .389 OBP... Pretty pricey..

 

[pr0tege]

Honestly are the Tigers worse off than last season? Yes I believe so but even still I don't think there will be many picking against the Tigers to win the Central in 2014. The problem though is that just winning the division is NOT the goal of a very aging team with a poor minor league system. And the playoff type teams the Tigers might face have improved and not regressed. Boston, New York and Texas have all had at least in my opinion a successful offseason where as quite honestly most experts question a LOT of the Tigers moves this offseason.

Just not a good sign for a team with several aging players and seeing those high chances of a WS ring slowly dwindling away. The next 2 seasons will play a vital role in where the Tigers are over the coarse of the next 5-6 seasons overall.

 

[pr0tege]

Also you have to realize how next season's free agent class looks and quite honestly it's worse than this season at least in terms of bats.

Chase Headley - 3B/LF
Hanley Ramirez - SS/3B (In talks with LA on an extension)
Pablo Sandoval - 3B (In talks with Giants on an extension)
Brett Gardner - LF/CF
Torii Hunter - RF
Nick Markakis - RF (Mutual options for 17.5M but considering he could probably get 100M as a FA more than likely will be declined)
Victor Martinez - DH

Probably the only 2 players we could afford here are our own 2 free agents in Hunter/Martinez so again no improvement to the club there. The only big improvement would be Headley but I seriously doubt the Tigers would be in play for him unless Castellanos just bombs at 3B this season and the HAVE to move him back to the OF. In which case on the open market he is likely to get a contract basically on par with Choo (7/130)

 

[thehippo73]

The Rangers will be paying Choo & Prince $42 million in 7 years for their last year of their contract. That's gonna be a lot of money on the bench.

 

[Sbee]

The Rangers will be paying Choo & Prince $42 million in 7 years for their last year of their contract. That's gonna be a lot of money on the bench.

Those are both awful contracts, at least we only signed one and not both. We just need to develop some position players and have them under team control for a while and then maybe sign a team friendly extension. Otherwise you're the la angels

 

[Mitchrapp]

Those are both awful contracts, at least we only signed one and not both. We just need to develop some position players and have them under team control for a while and then maybe sign a team friendly extension. Otherwise you're the la angels

It all starts there. But we don't seem to draft quality position players. It's all about the power arms where maybe 1 out of 20 succeed.